Some people don't get it

[pecunium]

So, there's a community on Flickr (and I've been paying attention to community, in part becuase evilrooster has sensitised me to the idea of building online community, and I'm looking at how different places/people do it.

I think this one has a bad model (which seems to be a non-unique model). One is supposed to comment on "x" number of photos prior to whatever photo you post to the group. I think, on watching how it works in practice. The problem is the comments aren't freely given, they are a quid pro quo. One of the reasons I think it's a failing model is the complaints people have about not geting the comments they are entitled to.

In this group the comment is a simple score. I happen to think so bare-bones a response is less than useful (is the score because of a personal preference, or does it reflect a school of criticism?, that's just the start of the problem).

So I add critique, detailing what did/didn't work for me.

Which led to this exchange:

++++

Me: The moody effect works for me, but the light is murky in the details of the ring, I have to work to see the intricacies of it, which steals from the impact.


The photographer: the light on the ring is mixed in the focus and out of focus areas, the ring is focused on the first plane and out of focus in the rear plane also the light is out of focus in the rear plane..... so the only clear details are on the focus area also I recomend to asjust ur monitor for pictures with a gamma of 2.2 for better apreciation

+++++

Ignoring the assumption about my monitor (s'he doesn't know how I've calibrated it) we have a couple of problems.

One, most people do have monitors which are gamma 1.8. Which means, should s/he want them to be in their best light... better to set the image to the norm, than to bitch if it fails to be viewed that way.

Two: S/he asked for comment. I looked at it in the large size, and made my comments. Best, when one gets a bad review, to take it as read, and drive on. Not tell the reviewer they don't get it. Worse yet to tell the reviewer they looked at it from the wrong standpoint.

There's a lot of art in the world. Some is for the artist (this can be good, or bad. Emily Dickenson wasn't writing her poems for the world). Most is for the world.

That's a collaboration. I make a poem, a photo, a sketch. If I want to share it with the world, I can (and it's so much easier now). The viewer brings all of the predjudices, training, understandings and experience s/he has. That colors how the image is seen, the poem is heard, the song enjoyed.

What they think about a piece can't be wrong. It may be ill-informed. It may be done without reflection, consideration or understanding, but it's not wrong.

And telling them it's wrong... is wrong.


Am I trepidatious when I put a piece up for examination? You bet. Rejection sucks. Detailed critique is painful. Expert critique can feel as if one is being flayed alive.

But if one puts it up, one has to take the criticisms at face value.

I'll close with some cuteness.



Синя

Comments

[batwrangler.livejournal.com]

Adorable! Is he a western hognose?

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yes, he is Heterodon nasicus. If you follow the link you'll see a larger version.

TK

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Well, I could see the artist saying, "The effect you didn't like was done deliberately; sorry it doesn't work for you." That's a legitimate difference of opinion. But I'm with you 100% about telling the viewer that their monitor must be set wrong, when you requre a non-standard setting. At the very least, that information should be in the photo caption: "Best Viewed with Gamma Setting 2.2" or something like that.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Right, and that's a pair of legitmate responses.

I've done that sort of explanation when someone commented on a feature, which was a feature. But that's not the tone s/he took.

If the image had a comment that, "best viewed in" it would be ok too. An artist can do whatever makes the work look best to the artist, but to require the viewer to jump through, secret, hoops, is assholey.

TK

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Looking at it some more, part of what bothers me about the reply was, "I did it this way, and you should appreciate that".

Well, if I'm supposed to like it, because of all the clever work which was done, why ask for feedback?

I saw all those things (the narrow plane of critical focus, the angled light, the use of a narrow tonal range), and they didn't work.

That's the way it goes. If you want me to think it works, you can't. You don't have to change what you do to please me, but I'm not going to think it works.

TK

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

As a writer, the rule of thumb is all edits are correct; they may be about the wrong thing, but they're correct.

People are very good at spotting something wrong. They are not as good about figuring out what is wrong. So when somebody says "You should lead with this paragraph", that may or may not be solution, but you do know that the paragraph contains something important that you need to showcase.

And you always, always bitch about the edit in private, not to the editor.

Note: this is technical editing. Fiction may be completely different.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

Flickr is such a weird place sometimes. I know I put my photos up mostly for my own pleasure, and I'm delighted when someone comes along and lets me know they had a look at something. I don't seek out feedback from my peer group there. Obviously, if someone has some technical feedback that's cool, but I'm neither here nor there about it.

But golly, if one seeks out criticism, one had better be ready to have one's work critiqued and not whine that the audience is looking at it all wrong.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I don't know if my college years innured me to a lot of it (or perhaps interrogation training), but feedback is feedback. When you ask for it, well you get it; and not everyone will like everything.

I think part of the problem is people don't get much critique. They get praises, but they don't get honest evaluations.

So they take it personally. I've had people decide that comments on the technical aspects of a photo was a criticism of the looks of the model.

I think, looking at the way the places which advertise critique handle it (one has an admin who's idea of good critique is to say, "here's your photo, now that I've fixed it for you," which isn't what I'm looking for. I'd rather have him tell me what it is he'd like to see changed.

Then again he also made some snarky assumptions about my equipment (telling me to buy the lens I was using, and mis-idenitifying it), which may have colored my perception of him.

But that wasn't in the realm of critiqueing the work, it seemed more to be in the way of insulting the artist.

Perhaps I am too touchy.

TK

[zhaneel69.livejournal.com]

Reviewing and commenting is always hard. One of the things that is harsh about the internet is that people can respond directly to their commentors and that ability is misused. When comments are made in print or another way of feedback the creator didn't usually have a direct means of publically responding.

I've seen this more in the writing areas but it sounds similar for photowork.

Also the comment on your monitor is just ass. Unless there were 'instructions to view' or somesuch that is just lame.

Zhaneel

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

Have you considered starting your own community on Flickr? I have an account there, and while I am very much an amateur photographer, I'd be more than willing to give my impressions of photos posted in your group. Heck, I'd even join it.

Flickr has a built-in audience, so you'd get good feedback fairly quickly. If you are interested in selling your photos, you might try Zazzle. Not sure if they have a critique area, but they do seem have recognition for views and comments.

[intelligentrix.livejournal.com]

Speaking of critiquing photos, I have some product-photo issues I'm wrestling with over on my journal and I sure would appreciate the benefit of your educated eye. I promise not to counter with the "I meant to do that" defense. I just want to take pictures good enough to go up on my etsy site.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

I'll nip on over and take a look-see.

TK

[intelligentrix.livejournal.com]

Thanks!