Hobby horses

[pecunium]

I ride a few.

I belong to a couple of feminist communities on LJ.

They get trolled. Sometimes (as in this one) the trolls hoist a petard and hang themselves on it.

I try to deal with them simply. See the arrant nonsense, make a statement and then savage the reply (this is a pattern, not a rule, sometimes it's not a troll, just a confused person; or one who argues poorly, those we speak with as people of reason).

After that I try to not say any more, it's bad for my amity with the world.

If they annoy me too greatly (the [insert abusive adjective of choice... none of mine are strong enough] who argued, among other things that women weren't gettig killed fast enough in Iraq, so the ought to stop bitching about equal rights, comes to mind) and send other people to talk to him.

The one I linked to above, well it made me realise my hobby horses. I like to argue (I am certain there was a massive intake of breath when you read this), and people will digress. By way of example one of the posters in that discussion argues that sociology isn't a science, it's just statistical analysis. She also makes a lot of apple to oranges comparisons to prove her points.

This has drawn me into too many exchanges, esp. as I know, from past experience, it won't end well. Neither of us is going to feel satisfied when it's done.

So, to give this purpose, what hobby horses do you have; which you notice only after you've taken them to a gallop?

Comments

[red-silk-robe.livejournal.com]

I enjoy watching the trolls hang themselves for my amusement. Sometimes I'll help them along just a bit and then watch them swing in the wind. But for the most part, after 16 years in online community, my rule is "Don't feed the animals."

They're attention whores who do not realize and if they do realize, they do not care to differentiate between good attention and bad attention. They can, when fed, destroy the cohesiveness and communication of any online community. Which is why I advocate starving them out.

I turned my hobby horse into a lamp. And now It sits by as I read My Friend Flicka. :)

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

I try, by not responding to the established ones, and not keeping the new ones fed for long. That and I rarely get heated, which most of them crave.

But to let them go, completely, without reasoned response isn't fair to those who don't know they are trolls, and get taken in by them. The ones I see in the feminist communities have gotten sort of subtle, but then again, they are looking to prove a case, so perhaps the aren't really trolls, but stalking horses.

TK

[tsenft.livejournal.com]

#1 for me has got to people who use a notion of biological imperative to support arguments about social organization. Particularly on the Internet, the number of people who trot out a fourth grade understanding of Darwinian evolution to discuss gender, sexuality, labor, market economies, war, voting, reading--you name it, really--never ceases to boggle. Engaging with them is always a collosal waste of breath, because theirs is an ideology tantamount to religious faith. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, etc.

But the real question for me is: why choose to engage? Not to be overly psychological about it, but I wonder what phantom from my past I am taking on/down when I get into these types of discussions.

In case you haven't guessed, II really like this idea of identifying (and taking responsibility for) one's own hobby horses. I probably have about ten of these. I'm going to think on this more and draft a list for myself.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

That's a big one. It shows up a lot on the feminist communities.

The other one of those which drives me ape is the people who don't believe in the contingent nature of evolution, but see it as guided in some way.

The top hobby horse of mine is (at the moment) probably torture, but I know I'm riding that one, so it doesn't really count.

TK

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I, too, like to argue (also probably no great surprise); I do so mainly to test my own ideas--which is why I read your LJ.

I think I have been aware of my hobby horses before I have ridden them publicly, but I could be wrong.

I have

[skip-hunter.livejournal.com]

an inability to allow people to defend the southern position to the civil war without HEAVY mention of slavery.

Re: I have

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yep, me too.

There are non-slavery aspects to it, but the 800lb. gorrila was slavery.

And those who defend the south now, well they have a hurdle, because so much of it has been appropriated by those who would go back to Jim Crow, at least.

TK

Re: I have

[skip-hunter.livejournal.com]

That..and that stupid flag used as an official ....thing.

Re: I have

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

That's part of the appropriaton.

The topic came up here recently.

TK

Re: I have

[skip-hunter.livejournal.com]

Spot on.

Re: I have

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

When you say "defend the South now" what do you mean? A lot of the things that go on in the south also go on in places like Idaho.

Re: I have

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Well, there's the whole of the thread I linked to.

But in a nutshell, anyone who starts to talk about "War of Northern Agression" gets short shrift from me.

Folks who say the Stars and Bars are a symbol of regional pride, and nothing else.

People who explain that the Southern Way of Life wasn't really all that bad.

That the Civil War, War Between the States wasn't about slavery.

The list of similar "Defenses" is longer, but you get the gist.

TK

Re: I have

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Yep, I agree with you on all of those. I just get bent out of shape when I hear people claim that racism and sexism and homophobia are confined to the regions below the Mason-Dixon line.

Re: I have

[geekchick]

As do I.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I tend not to argue so much as rant to vent my spleen. Arguing with the willfully ignorant just makes me tired and depressed after a while.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Way back I posted a piece on public argument (after almost getting tossed from a bar because of engagement in discussion of same-sex marriage with another patron).

I don't ever expect to convince the person with whom I am disagreeing (if I do that's cake). I do it to catch the ill-informed, or the open-minded who are watching.

This helps me maintain calm.

TK

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Ooooo...

Christianity not being intrinsically evil, or the province of the Jerry Falwells of the world. The mommy wars (big time). Legal issues -- especially capital punishment.

Oh, and I forgot...

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Anti-Southerner bigotry.