Should I use the clue by four?

[pecunium]

In a conversation on the way things are pronounced someone argued that the terminal 'x' in french plurals is silent.

I, from my (at this point ancient) french made the observation:


> It isn't silent in French. It slightly clips the end, when it is the
> terminal word, and it elides into a 'z' sound when it abuts a vowel, a la
> "les bureaux acadamique" (which is probably crappy grammar, but shows the
> function).


Their reply was:

True enough, but on its own, it's silent:)

I am going to leave it lie there (though someone else did note that "silent e" (the genesis of the discussion) is, by my way of thinking, not really silent either.

Comments

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

But isn't that entire conversation incredibly fannish?

K.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yes. Fandom's love of word-play, and pedantry, and esoterica all combine to make such places in the web feel fairly fannish.

But there are levels of doggedness I'm just not going to engage in, outside an APA.

TK

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

I misunderstood, and thought you were having a conversation with a fan.

K.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

No. But it does have a lot of that dynamic.

TK

[editrx.livejournal.com]

But isn't that entire conversation incredibly fannish?

More along the lines of linguistics-geek-speak (which does overlap into certain areas of fandom, but is a valid geek group all by itself, believe me).

As someone who grew up bilingual in French (Parisian dialect), I'd say, yes, it does indeed "clip" when the "x" is added to create a plural; I'd say it's more of a gutteral at the very bottom of the throat, actually. The open "-eau" shifts when it becomes "-eaux," but it's very subtle to most people, especially English speakers. You have to have an ear for it: most non-French speakers do not have it -- it's a specialized sound, like the "eu" sound one can only learn by pronouncing certain French words with a pencil held over the top lip (yes, they make children practice this when learning French as a second language).

Also, you find that "z" slur into a soft vowel at the beginning of a following word doesn't occur in certain regional accents in French, and not at all in newscasters and certain film actors (depending on the role).

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the little bits and pieces of various neepery. I have too many bits and pieces of language (I speak, with various levels of fluency, four. I can also hold my own in several distinct dialects of my mother tongue), and a touch of the pedant.

The guttering of the ending is a good way to describe it.

I suppose, though I'm not going to bring it up there, my real problem is that, even in English, with all it's oddity of spelling, most letters have real meaning to the pronunciation. It's why they were put on the page.

Some have atrophied, some are so different they are thought to be gone (the "lost 'r'" in Boston) but they do have function.

TK

[editrx.livejournal.com]

The "r" in Boston comes from the r's in "Martha's Vineyard" that were transferred over (Mahtha's Vinyahd). People think r's are missing in New England. They just don't know were to look. We save everything -- margarine containers, old jars -- why would we throw away perfectly good consonants?!

:-)

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

So, "Yes, it's silent, except when it isn't" (i.e. "You're right, but I'm going to cling to my point")? Hunh.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

No, it's the other way 'round. I say it isn't silent, in French, she says, "you're right", but I'm going to act like you aren't, and pretend I've refuted you.

They agree it isn't silent, then say it is.

TK

[faithhopetricks.livejournal.com]

Right, you know, that's what I meant only I haven't had any coffee today. -- That's most annoying.