More on healthcare

[pecunium]

The Denver Post has a decent column up, Debunking Myths about Canadian Healthcare

There is also a forum for discussing it.

It's interesting, as one reads the comments (almost 450, at this count) to see the difference between those who think the US system needs to change, and those who don't.

Those who want to see it change cite studies, and polls. Those who don't cite opinion pieces, or make unspported statements (someone blamed Natasha Richardson's death on there being no helicopter; never mind that she refused treatment).

Most of the "rebuttals are things on the order of, "The US is best", and, "We don't want the beauraucrats making decisions". There are also the, "Gov't can't do anything right crowd."

When a Canadian opines (esp. those who have lived both places) that they like/prefer the Canadian system, they are called liars.

But my favorite comment was this one

I'm a Canadian, and I can tell you that we do have American-style care here in certain areas. I went to my medical provider when a member of my family broke a leg. I was astonished by the invoice for the operation: consultation fee, anaesthetic, bandages, various drugs, needles, assistance of three people, specialist- the invoice was three pages long. The total was nearly $1350.00. And I was very interested because I'd never seen a medical invoice before.

When another member of my family broke an arm, there were two operations, three casts, and twenty rehab visits without every seeing a single piece of paper.

Of course, the broken leg was my dog. The broken arm was my son.

You Americans treat your children the way we treat our dogs.

Comments

[sylphslider.livejournal.com]

I had something like your provincial MSP plan when I was on Medi-Cal and got supplemental free health care through my college. It was an unmitigated disaster, one full of incompetent morons who practiced the Occam's Razor method of health care - I can't tell you how many times I've been tested for strep throat, which I've never had. What I actually had were several bad bouts of bronchitis.

Of course the incompetency of particular moronic doctors have nothing whatsoever to do with health care plans and governments, excepting that here the morons end up treating the people who can't pay for anything better, while the people who can pay the most get the best doctors.

But, I didn't pay a cent for any of it. And I had no problem getting access to a doctor. To be clear I should point out that at no point in my life have I ever been one of those middle-class people who assume they're poor. I've been homeless 4 times (childhood and as an adult, not couch-surfing), I've lived without plumbing and electricity but under a roof, and I lived for some time in the desert in a home with plumbing and electricity but with no refrigerator. It's not actually hard to get access to a doctor, unless you break your leg 5 miles from the nearest road up a mountain (where I used to live when I was 6) and 20 miles past that to the nearest clinic. It is hard to pay the doctor's bills if you're not so broke that they write them off. That's what people are really talking about when they say that medical care is unaccessible.

But that was a tangent and had nothing to do with what you said.

My Canadian friend was too poor to afford private insurance. All she got was your Canadian Medicare life-or-death stuff. I think that what we refer to when we say we want government-subsidized health care is more like the health care that would enable a person to have an "elective" hysterectomy. Also, a lot of Americans live under the belief that Canadian health care is universal, that all of you could just run out and get Lasik surgery on your eyes if you really wanted to. As if any government system would cover that.

[anna-en-route.livejournal.com]

The New Zealand healthcare system could be a lot better but it's worth noting that my partner's father was just given "elective" weightloss (sort of) surgery that has dramatically extended both his life expectancy and his working years.

I would question your statement about accessability though, could you have gotten early screening for suspected cancer, or Glaucoma or any one of the number of medical conditions that are cheaper to treat early? Could you have filled prescriptions if they were needed? Could you have gotten regular treatment for chronic conditions like Asthma or diabetes?

One of my relatives is working on a genetic test for a particularly nasty chronic condition and I'm in the weird position of being happy that it will help with early treatment but vaguely horrified that it could be used to justify insurance companies refusing to treat people in the US.
How weird is it that advancing the cause of medical science could actually wind up hurting people?

[sylphslider.livejournal.com]

I think what your partner's father got was awesome and I'm glad he got it. He must be relieved.

I think I'm an unusual case, though I had to be told by a friend that the program I'm on now for free health care existed. If I had not known about it, I would not currently be experiencing this free 6 month stint of health care. (IE I pay premiums but the HMO pays for everything I'd normally pay out of pocket.) I think that poor people who are proactive and resourceful and lucky enough to know about programs like the one I'm in are more likely to get good health care than folks with incomes. It's like our education system - I pay nothing whatsoever to go to University, but my boyfriend will have to pay because he's middle-class and makes more money.

Early screening for suspected cancer? I got that - but I got it because I asked. I found out that cancer runs rampant on my father's side of my family so I've been really proactive about that.

Glaucoma? Yeah, my vision tests are free and always have been. It's getting glasses that costs a fortune. In other words, it costs nothing to tell me my eyesight sucks, but it costs me $300 for a reasonable pair of glasses that won't break my nose under their weight or won't break if I sit on them. *sigh* Incidentally, my vision care insurance is so annoying that, despite my vision tests being free, I voluntarily opt to pay the cost of the vision test at the local Lenscrafters where I buy my decent frames.

Filled prescriptions? Currently my prescriptions are free. In March, before I filled out the paperwork, they cost me about $20/mo. My prescriptions are generic. I did have a prescription for Ambien, at $80/mo., which I couldn't afford - but Ambien is, to me, an optional drug. Now that my scrips are free, though, I might refill that one. Also, I have a friend who was so poor she lived in a trailer with an enormous hole in the livingroom (lounge) floor. She had a necessary prescription for Prilosec, which back then was horrendously expensive and non-generic, and she got it for free because she was indigent and there was no other appropriate medication for her at that time.

Regular treatment for chronic conditions like diabetes - hm. I don't have a chronic condition other than migraines right now, but my migraine treatments are free. But the little card in my wallet says that procedures and hospital visits are free and when I saw my doctor they said they'd bill the MFA plan instead of me, so I'm assuming that they'd be free. Not the lancets, though; you get those at the drug store. So, doctor treatments would be free, but routine daily blood tests would not. Though I've heard there's a program for indigent people to help them pay for their daily blood test equipment.

I think that it's absolutely unconscionable that anyone would use a genetic test to justify the refusal of treatment for sick people. I think we have a duty to care for one another at the very least because it's in our own self-interest, but also because I believe that people should make an effort to "love their neighbors." I hope your relative succeeds, and I hope that person's success isn't used to hurt anyone.

[zingerella.livejournal.com]

To add my anecdata to your anecdata, my former Toronto roommate had no problem getting OHIP (our provincial insurer) to pay for her endometriosis surgery. I had no problem getting a small Barthoman's cyst marsupialized. As in, we didn't have to petition anyone. Our respective doctors said something along the lines of "You need minor surgery to correct this. Here's how the surgery works. Call this person to see when we can do this." We each made our respective phone calls, showed up at the hospitals, had our surgery, went home, and went to our follow-up appointments without ever seeing an invoice or discussing the costs.

Both were elective procedures.