I think they missed the boat

[pecunium]

Feministing has a post up about, "local dating' which is making reference to a post about The Case Against Long Distance Relationships at Slate.

I am conflicted. Being in an LDR at the moment, I can see some of the complaints. But what I see is a strange blindness. The cost of the LDRs is a problem of the benefits of the net. People fall for people because of who they are. It used to be LDRs were, more often than not, because one person left the area (usually for a known period, they went to colllege, joined the Navy, took a job wintering over the S. Pole, something) and the trick was to keep the spark from dying out.

But there were the pen-pals, and the common interest groups, and the like. People fall for other people. Yeah, carbonating hormones and the warm aftreglow of a great romp can lead to relationships, but in my experience, that's not the usual way of it.

And that's where the internet comes in. I know lots of people on Lj, whom I would never know in real life. I have a sense that I know them, and they have a sense they know me.

I see the same pattern happning in other blogs. Those which foster community, cause friendships. Some of those are really strong. Making Light just did an impromptu comfort gifting to two of it's members who took ill. It wasn't to cover their bills, it was to cheer them up. That's an LDR.

They are also working to raise funds for another habitue, who had a stroke, and is self-employed. That's the power of community. People have made long trips to go and help out.

The entirety of, "the netroots" which has so invigorated politics, is the same thing.

I don't see people condeming that. I don't see them saying the people who flew to Connecticut to campaign for Ned Lamont were bad people; because they were adding to the Carbon Load. There is no way to have those things, without the other. People fall for each other.

Which makes it seem the real problem isn't:

... spending all their free time out of town or staring at a webcam--that is, in their apartments or airline cabins, rather than in parks, bowling alleys, and pubs--long-distance lovers erode civic commitment and social support networks. They have fewer chances to meet new people.

Because those self-same sorts of things are seen as invigorating the national debate, sense of social connectedness (we have a better appreciation of how other parts of the country, and the world, live their lives, make their decisions and go about their business. We are said to be more connected as a result) are praised... so long as there's no sex involved.

Is an LDR hard? Yep. Is it immoral? No.

It's human.

Comments

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

And that's where the internet comes in. I know lots of people on Lj, whom I would never know in real life. I have a sense that I know them, and they have a sense they know me.

Yes. I agree.

... spending all their free time out of town or staring at a webcam--that is, in their apartments or airline cabins, rather than in parks, bowling alleys, and pubs--long-distance lovers erode civic commitment and social support networks. They have fewer chances to meet new people.

If our only relationships are online, there might be cause for concern, but I think that's a pretty unrealistic view of things. And I know that my involvement with people online has added to my sense of connection with the world and the larger community. As you mentioned, I've met people I'd never have met in person, some of them only because we live in different places, but others because even if we lived nearby our non-electronic social circles would probably have very little overlap. My life feels richer for having more people in it, regardless of whether I've met them face-to-face, or only through a long-distance medium. My perspective has been broadened, because of their willingness to share a tiny part of their lives with me, and with many others.

I can only see this as a good thing.

[redbird]

Does it count if one of my long-distance internet friends introduces me to a bunch of people, none of whom live in my city, and two of whom are now my long-distance partners? Or have I still not "met new people" because none of those three is someone I will run into by accident on the subway?

[redbird]

For that matter, my relationship with minnehaha B. is almost entirely online as well as long-distance. We met in high school. I don't mean "when we were in high school," I mean we met because we were classmates. But I guess that's okay, because he and I have never dated.

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

I've taken to trying to meet as many LJ friends on my travels as possible. I get two business trips a year- and all to different cities, so this is an ongoing thing. And I've met over a dozen of them- in New Orleans, Washington DC, Dallas, and Louisville- and hope to meet even more next year.

I wish I had more local friends- but I live in a part of the country that is rather sparse on like-minded folks. I do have a small circle of local friends that I meet with- and some of them are on LJ, too. Still, my long-distance relationships and friendships keep me from being a total recluse.

Don't know if I'll ever find a mate online, though- I am as terrified of online dating as I am of real-life dating. Must be an Aspie/introvert thing.

[anton-p-nym.livejournal.com]

My sense of Internet irony is so strong that I assumed those articles were satires... and paid them no more attention than I would a mediocre LOLcat meme.

-- Steve likes his version better.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Yeah, your traditional LDR is what we have now, and it is so hard to find support for something like that (unless you are a military spouse). It's frustrating. :(

I know quite a number of people who moved their LDRs into full time local stuff, one person moved to the other. It's not something I would brush off. It is real. It is moral. And at least they eventually DO move in together, which is a better answer than I can give. "When will Dan LIVE WITH YOU ALL THE TIME?" "I dunno, when he retires?" And then the criticism gets worse. Ah well.

[kibbles.livejournal.com]

Online is fantastic for support, too.

I may know a few other parents with autistic kids here in my small city, but the support I get from parents on LJ, for example, really makes the days bearable.

When I was concerned that my son may be facing having to live in some sort of group home setting in the nearish future (he is six), I actually found a few people who are going through that right now! Where can I find people, talk to a neighbor 'oh hey my kid is in a bad way, I'm gonna have to turn him over to some pros for help' and not let them think that I am the world's shittiest mother? You can build connections, great ones, online.

Facebook has been helping, too. People I kind of knew in passing in high school are now my biggest cheerleaders, and I hope they feel the same way about me. We're grown, and scattered, but our bonds are actually STRONGER. It's weird.

[fairestcat]

Is an LDR hard? Yep. Is it immoral? No.

It's human.

THANK YOU. YES. THIS.

[urox.livejournal.com]

If other people can do LDRs, I'm all in favor of them making the attempt.

Myself, I tried and it failed miserably. And I understand why. Because I crave physical connection. Not just sex, but touch connection. Leaning against the other person on a couch. Holding hands walking down the street. Cuddling. And extended absences of it make me absolutely miserable.

[pdlloyd.livejournal.com]

Yes. I think most of the detractors are people who've spent very little time online and just don't understand that our very human need for connection can be ethereal, as well as physical. Online, we have much greater access to people who are going through similar situations and can understand our concerns, while our friends in real life may be sufficiently befuddled by the things we have to cope with that their suggestions and reactions can be less than helpful.

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

*<<<<<<<<<<< you both*

*needs more suitable icon for these moments*

*proud GF in Canada since 2004*

[ourika.livejournal.com]

I think that different parts of the article and blog post caught me. The first thing that jumped out at me was the "flying cross country once a month" part of the Slate article. Wow, I was in a LDR for a full year. We saw each other three times during that year. We had planned to see each other twice, but my partner received a surprise holiday gift of a ticket to see his sweetie. There's no way in hell either of us could have even CONTEMPLATED regular flights and it took everything we had to swing just two visits. Who the hell are these couples that have the spare cash to fly cross country that often? I mean, that's not just a ton of money in flights, that's time off work and everything else.

The second thing that caught me was the presumption that if these people in LDR weren't in them, they'd be "out meeting locals." Um, yeah, cuz that's so successful. Don't the writers mean that these individuals would be "out settling for someone else."? I live in the middle of freaking no where. There is a significantly smaller population of people for me to consider meeting, and then you add in trying to meet someone that I like *and* have chemistry with and, well, your numbers are getting smaller by the second. So really, you'd have people who might have more chances to get laid, but, seriously, when did getting locally laid become the primary thing to base a relationship on? And meeting them in bowling lanes and bars? GREAT place to meet potential partners *rolls eyes*

The thing that caught the most in my throat was the part about trust. There's less trust in LDR. Um, huh? The only way LDRs survive is if there is a strong level of trust. I trusted TP completely during our time LDR. If I hadn't, we wouldn't have made it. And the same is true in reverse. We put a lot more time and effort into building that trust so that we could survive, and if we hadn't, who knows if we would have ended up where we are now.

We spent most of that year being terribly lonely, having lots of phone conversations and emailing back and forth a lot. We were sad and miserable and without that really important physical contact (interestingly enough, at the time, I thought it was lack of sex that was bugging me, it took me a few more years to realize that it had been the lack of cuddling that had made me crazy). But our emotional connection grew. In fact, it grew so much that we almost didn't survive when we got back together (we'd gone from "New Relationship Energy" to "super-close companions" and had a tough time reconciling those two).

And seriously, why would meeting someone cross country over the internet and then flying back and forth once or twice be better than hooking up at a smoky bar only to discover that you aren't that keen on the person but, hell, you slept with them, so, sure, we'll go on another date. I almost married someone for the convenience of it once. I didn't even *like* the person, but we were in a small town, and I was desperate to be liked and out of my parent's house and it seemed like my only option. Thankfully, I regained my sense *shudders*

Wow, long rant, nothing of substance. I've been thinking recently about friendship, though. There are a couple of online folks that I have been conversing with for years, and I do call them friend and mean it. We've never met. A few years back, that would have freaked me out.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Was not lacking in substance.

[marydell.livejournal.com]

It drives me crazy when people try to define what intimacy should mean for other people. Everyone has his/her own sense of what's essential in a relationship, and trying to use a cookie-cutter to say what works and what doesn't is...not supported by evidence.

Amen to everything you say here.

[michiexile]

I ... I .... I want to respond, but I cannot seem to find any words. Some of what I want to say has been said well by others, and some I just can't seem to articulate.

But parts of it is:
I'm in an LDR. With my _wife_. How is this immoral?

Are they seriously telling me that once a month is too OFTEN for me too see my wife?

When we committed to our relationship, we were still living together. We met in the same city. Then trying to nurse an academic career, we've moved apart and stayed apart since. Which I guess makes us a good example of those LDR-by-moving apart discussed.

The fix? Probably to make the academic job market less broken. I'm not that convinced this is what they try to provoke though.

--

Incoherent, yes.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Yes. That. I could have written that response almost word-for-word.

And to the bit about online friends, I'll add this: when I was going thru my divorce, it was my online friends as much as my local ones who kept me sane. Because I could go hang out in my online communities any time, day or night, and there would be people there and interesting conversations. That was a life-saver (literally) a couple of times in the depths of the night.

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

Yup. The definitions (formal and presumed) of most of the crucial words in this discussion seem to me to be highly subjective, which I think casts more than a little doubt on any generalizations being made.

[niamh-sage.livejournal.com]

I, too, am struggling to find words to express my "Wha...??" Sorry, but I have NO REGRETS about my LDR, none at all, not for the carbon emissions from my plane travel, nor for the poor weeping local boys back home who missed out on my company (yeah, right!).

[fjm.livejournal.com]

LDR courtships were the norm for most of the middle-classes until the 1920s. Distances were such that relationships were started at annual meetings of churches, and summer visiting parties, in London in "the Season" and then cemented over three years or so of letters and visits.

[ourika.livejournal.com]

I haven't been through a divorce, but when I am home alone for a week and decide to watch scary murder detective shows and spend all evening hearing noises of "someone who's going to come to kill me" being able to chat online SERIOUSLY helps. I would never call my friends at midnight just because I was feeling wussy, but if my friends are already online, well, I can chat with them :-)

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Agreed on all points. I am haptotropic, especially in relationships, and LDRs are just terribly difficult that way for me. I can do it if there's an end in sight to the LD part, but I've concluded that I can't do it indefinitely. It just bums me out too much.

[texaslawchick.livejournal.com]

I was in an LDR for about ten months, and someone flew so we could see each other at least once a month, usually twice a month. We took advantage of southwest.com ding sales, and we generally flew on weekends for about $100-$150 a trip. I don't think the LDR-ness of the relationship had anything to do with its eventual demise, but the constant travel did get to be a pain after awhile.

My boyfriend now lived in LA when we met at the 2007 Burning Man Festival. We did the LDR thing (I flew twice, he flew once) for four months before he decided to pack his life up and move to Houston to live with me. I much prefer having him full time, but I think those first few months of constant communication helped build a pretty good foundation.

[tenderberry.livejournal.com]

well said - and might I add one gets out of a site what one puts into it - I have met some of the most wonderful people on the unlikeliest of sites & even managed to connect others with like interests & causes to each other - we find and are attracted to the same people we would be if we met in person - ie wherever you go virtually or not - there you are -