Shall we call it the Cheka?

[pecunium]

§ 605 of the PATRIOT act, as given in the form the White House wants written without a sunset (as if having this for only a few years would make it any better). "A permanent police force, to be known as the 'United States Secret Service Uniformed Division,'empowered to make arrests without warrant for any offense against the United States committed in their presence,or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such felony."

This raises a few questions. "Any offense against the United States,"? Who chooses. What rights of appeal does one have? What limits will be made against Habeas Corpus?

When I was a security guard we got an, all too brief, course on the powers we had to arrest (the same as any other citizen). If we had good reason to believe a person had committed a felony we could arrest someone (this only applies to Calif., if you want to make a citizens arrest I am not giving advice). But we were warned that unless we saw it, it was better to just it go.

Does reasonable grounds include the reports of informants? Can those informants be anonymous? Will the uniformed division be allowed to have plainclothes, and undercover, agents?

Comments

[moropus.livejournal.com]

The very thought of secret police give me the willies. How much freedom will people give up for the illusion of safety?

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Even if it's the best trained police force in the world, I don't want this. It's an extremely dangerous idea.

[sethg]

How would the powers of the USSSUD differ from the powers of, say, the uniformed officers of a regular city police force or the Federal Protective Service?

If I pass a cop and say "that guy running down the street just mugged me", but the officer didn't actually see the robbery, is the cop empowered to arrest the alleged mugger, or does he/she have to get a warrant first?

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

It depends.

For a felony one can swear out a criminal complaint. At which point the police investigate.

This can lead to miscarriages. I was arrested on a criminal complaint, about 20 years ago. The woman up the hill swore I had shot at her house the night before. She made the identification the following afternoon, from a couple of hundred feet away. Never mind that she hadn't seen anyone the night before, nor that I'd not been there at the time (well that was important, later).

The problems with this are: There are already police forces which can do this. The FBI has jurisdiction over espionage, terrorism, kidnapping (even when it's local), and pretty much any other offense against the U.S..

So what is the purpose of this? To whom do they answer? Under what guidelines will they operate? Why do this?

It will cost money, more money than just adding a new division to the FBI will add? I have never been fond of expanding the police powers of the state (RICO, just used in a case in Wash. against an employer because of false documentation of workers is wrong, overbroad and evil. It's original intent was questionable {use of a bad tool in the hopes of getting a good result} and I've been against it since I found out about it. Some of my response is certainly related to that). I've known a lot of police types. Local cops, DEA, FBI, and they are troubling. They divide the world into cops, perps and citizens, and many of the last are just seen as the second waiting to happen.

The more closely tied an agency is to a single idea (like the DEA, or the ATF) the more insular, and abusive it becomes, with greater chances for corruption. There are an awful lot of DEA guys in jail, for skimming busts of cash, or cutting deals with dealers, or going into business for themselves.

A police force designed to implement the PATRIOT Act, given the overbroad powers of the Act itself is terrifying. I don't like, don't want it and (sadly) don't see any way to stop it. This an agency being proposed by an adminstration which argues the doctrine of hot pursuit applies to phone calls. That argues talking to a lawyer can make the unlawful, legal (if you listen to what Bush says about wiretaps, that's the argument he makes. I'd love to see the court case for a ponzi scheme where the accused used that defense).

The FPS is semi-police force. They only have jurisdiction on federal property. They can't come busting down my door for something I've done elsewhere, even if it's a federal violation.

TK

[cluefairy-j.livejournal.com]

Well this just scared the shit out of me.

[cluefairy-j.livejournal.com]

What agency are they suggesting the USSSUD reside in??

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Treasury, sort of (because of jurisdictional scope I don't know as one can say they reside anywhere).

TK

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Oops, this detail would be part of DHS. I don't know if they plan to move the rest of the SS.

TK

[chris-goodwin.livejournal.com]

May I quote this post verbatim on my LJ and on a mailing list that would be interested?

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

It's public, but you probably want to link to the next post too.

TK

[cluefairy-j.livejournal.com]

I'm getting confused. What's the difference between the Secret Service Uniformed Division (http://www.secretservice.gov/ud.shtml) and this new USSSUD?