What a surprise

[pecunium]

They have a little list...

This time it's not communists, and it's been shared with the public.

1,300 alleged to be undocumented

It's terrorism, of the sort the Brownshirts engaged in. None of the people on this list are white. "An anonymous group says it quietly watched Hispanics in their neighborhoods, schools, churches and "public welfare buildings" to compile a list of 1,300 people it says are illegal immigrants living in Utah. The group sent the list to law enforcement agencies and news media demanding that those named 'be deported immediately.'"

This is some of the fruit of the Arizona nonsense. It's racist nonsense. It's meant to make anyone who looks different afraid. The idea of stuff like this is to make undesirables leave.

"This is a way to terrorize people," said Tony Yapias, director of Proyecto Latino and a former state director of Hispanic affairs...

I'm nauseated," he said through tears. "All of these people are terrified. I don't have words to describe how scared they are. It just breaks my heart what they are telling me."

While some are worried about deportation, others fear that "crazy people" could use the list to hurt them or their families, Yapias said."

This is a guy who used to work for the state.

Because of the information on the list (some of it quite personal, medical information, and the like) there is rampant speculation that the allegations of the information being collated from careful observation are false, and there was someone inside the state gov't who collected it from confidential information.

Which, even if false, is part of the pernicious effect of this, there are a lot of people who will stop going to get services; which includes things like vaccinations, and other things which benefit the entire public.

Married to the sense that there are spies and informers everywhere. Part of the letter to the media said they had gotten such help, "We then spend the time and effort needed to gather information along with legal Mexican nationals who infiltrate their social networks and help us obtain the necessary information we need.".

Of course, any list so large, has people on it who aren't in violation of the law, One woman on the list who spoke to KSL but asked not to be identified said she had a green card and would become a U.S. citizen next month. "I have my papers," she said. "Why did they put me on that list? Now it's been 15 years since I got my residency...I'm angry." .

For those who just happen to not be white, there is the prospect of being followed, spied on, and the worry that their gov't records will be scrutinised, just in case some anonymous vigilante happens to think they might be here without the right papers.

Governor Herbert says he'll investigate, we'll see how thorough it is.

In any case, I suspect there will be more of this sort of intimidation. I don't think the press is going to be much use in suppressing this sort of thing, and I don't suspect the results of an investigation, even it leads to jail time, are going to change the atmosphere of intimidation.

Comments

[the_future_modernes]

oh jesus CHRIST!!!

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

Jesus Wept.

Also, don't read the comments, as if anyone needed to be told.

[amberite2112.livejournal.com]

some people are fools, that is all this shows.
but i'm sure we knew that already.
sad, sad fools.

[niamh-sage.livejournal.com]

Good gods. What a disgusting thing to do, by whoever that group is. There can surely be no doubt that someone has illegally accessed at least some of that information - where the hell else would they come by someone's social security number??

I feel terrible for the people on that list, and for anyone, really, who is going to be looking over their shoulder now for fear of appearing on a similar list.

[ithiliana.livejournal.com]

I am sick reading that--especially the claim that "legal Mexican nationals" (???????????) helped -- that's an additional level of viciousness added to the sick stew of racism.

[ithiliana.livejournal.com]

p.s. meaning I don't believe for a minute that "legal Mexican nationals" infiltrated--it's the fact they make that claim that's so sickening.

[sethg]

One woman on the list who spoke to KSL but asked not to be identified said she had a green card and would become a U.S. citizen next month. "I have my papers," she said. "Why did they put me on that list? Now it's been 15 years since I got my residency...I'm angry."

I think they have some special lawyer-words to describe publically accusing a lawful US resident of being an illegal alien. One of those words is “libel”. And as part of the discovery process for the libel suit, lawyers for the plaintiff might find out more about how the list was compiled.

[bunsen-h.livejournal.com]

Not merely fools. Malicious enough to make considerable effort to cause a lot of harm to a lot of people.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

No, some people are terrorists.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

The funny thing is... it's pretty much only libelous because of the efforts of the sort of people who did this (which, IMO, is probably a very small group, perhaps as small as one person).

The sad thing, it won't get much airplay when it gets resolved; much as "Climategate" being debunked has been a non-event, esp. when compared to the furor which took place when the Right got ahold of it.

[sethg]

Accusing someone of committing a crime is libel per se, so even if there weren’t this foofaraw over illegal immigration, someone publically and falsely accused of violating immigration laws could sue for libel and not have to prove that the accusation was defamatory.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Yes, and no.

In the first case, the basic offense of being in the country without proper permissions is an infraction, so while it is libel per se to accuse someone of it, it's not really actionable; based on the level of actual offense.

In the second, for all that libel per se doesn't really require defamation, the remedy is going to be based on defamation, so the hoopla of the past couple of years is the only way a libel case (which is a tort, and so has to have some level of real harm, to get any really punitive judgement) gains any traction.

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

[Apologies if this appears twice -- my computer/lj interface is being even more wonky than usual, this morning.]

What we need now, IMO, is a published list of the names (& perhaps addresses) of the people who compiled this List.

Why, yes, now that you mention it, I _am_ the kind of cook who uses the same sauce for ganders as for geese.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

The part about no white people on the list--a couple decades ago, maybe more recently, the ethnicity of the largest population of illegal immigrants in the U.S. was IRISH, and some of them damn sure were terrorists (at least by my definition). And the Irish still account for a large population of those here illegally. But I knew when AZ passed the law that it wouldn't be people who look like me who fell under suspicion.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Of course not. The way the law is written, with it's creation of private action for perceived, "dereliction" is all about making sure the people who visibly stand out are persecuted.

A racist, or simple bigot, who wants to make sure the "mexicans" are hounded just has to file complaints, which purport to show the cops aren't "properly" enforcing the law.

Get enough of them filed and a lawsuit follows; end result, there will be stops, for the most trivial of infractions, and demands of, "papers please."

[ricevermicelli.livejournal.com]

No kidding.

I'm pretty sure that the largest population of illegal immigrants around here is still Irish - they're more likely to get through customs with minimal interrogation and less likely to be chased down when they overstay. The question of sorting the terrorists from the ordinary people seems to me to be a problem for law enforcement, not for immigration policy.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

The question of sorting the terrorists from the ordinary people seems to me to be a problem for law enforcement, not for immigration policy.

I agree, and the question of sorting legal immigrants from illegal immigrants seems to me to be a problem for immigration authorities, not law enforcement. (And a whole lot of folks in law enforcement think so, too.)

[ladymondegreen.livejournal.com]

Oy. Having been in the position myself of having my residency status challenged, while I had a green card, I can deeply empathize with the people in question.

I can only hope that they are still able to take care of themselves, and get the services they need, and that when they need legal counsel that it's available to them. Is anyone putting up a fund to support such a thing?

[harimad.livejournal.com]

"I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution." - U.S. Grant

[evilrooster.livejournal.com]

I read the comments yesterday. I'd say they were running about 50/50, which is a better ratio than I had hoped for.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Seconded. And won't they squeal when it comes out!

I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning.