In the department of, D'UH!
Apr. 11th, 2009 11:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pecuniumDetainee's Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots
A month ago Dick Cheney was spouting off that, "the enhanced interrogation program" stopped "a great many" terrorist attacks on the level of Sept. 11.
"I've seen a report that was written, based upon the intelligence that we collected then, that itemizes the specific attacks that were stopped by virtue of what we learned through those programs," Cheney asserted, adding that the report is "still classified," and, "I can't give you the details of it without violating classification."
In a word, Bullshit. He's making it up, and using the "Classified" routine as a dodge. Here's the thing; if he'd seen such a report, and said what he said, that's a breach of classified material. It's just like McCarthy's list, a bit of theater meant to cover up that his spiel is a steaming pile of crap.
From the article; The pressure from upper levels of the government was "tremendous," driven in part by the routine of daily meetings in which policymakers would press for updates, one official remembered.
"They couldn't stand the idea that there wasn't anything new," the official said. "They'd say, 'You aren't working hard enough.' There was both a disbelief in what he was saying and also a desire for retribution -- a feeling that 'He's going to talk, and if he doesn't talk, we'll do whatever.' "
The application of techniques such as waterboarding -- a form of simulated drowning that U.S. officials had previously deemed a crime -- prompted a sudden torrent of names and facts. Abu Zubaida began unspooling the details of various al-Qaeda plots, including plans to unleash weapons of mass destruction.
Abu Zubaida's revelations triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms. The interrogations led directly to the arrest of Jose Padilla, the man Abu Zubaida identified as heading an effort to explode a radiological "dirty bomb" in an American city. Padilla was held in a naval brig for 3 1/2 years on the allegation but was never charged in any such plot. Every other lead ultimately dissolved into smoke and shadow, according to high-ranking former U.S. officials with access to classified reports.
"We spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms," one former intelligence official said.
I am not surprised. Why? Because this is exactly what I've been saying for years is what torture does, it gets the answers the torturers want to hear. It pollutes the information stream and diverts limited assets to chasing after false leads, and up blind alleys.
That's when the blind alleys and false leads don't get people killed.
They had what they needed. They'd gotten information from him by the usual methods. They'd gotten corroborating information from other sources. But they didn't believe it, and they knew they could make him talk.
They were right.
What they couldn't do was make him know things he didn't; but they could make him say them.
A month ago Dick Cheney was spouting off that, "the enhanced interrogation program" stopped "a great many" terrorist attacks on the level of Sept. 11.
"I've seen a report that was written, based upon the intelligence that we collected then, that itemizes the specific attacks that were stopped by virtue of what we learned through those programs," Cheney asserted, adding that the report is "still classified," and, "I can't give you the details of it without violating classification."
In a word, Bullshit. He's making it up, and using the "Classified" routine as a dodge. Here's the thing; if he'd seen such a report, and said what he said, that's a breach of classified material. It's just like McCarthy's list, a bit of theater meant to cover up that his spiel is a steaming pile of crap.
From the article; The pressure from upper levels of the government was "tremendous," driven in part by the routine of daily meetings in which policymakers would press for updates, one official remembered.
"They couldn't stand the idea that there wasn't anything new," the official said. "They'd say, 'You aren't working hard enough.' There was both a disbelief in what he was saying and also a desire for retribution -- a feeling that 'He's going to talk, and if he doesn't talk, we'll do whatever.' "
The application of techniques such as waterboarding -- a form of simulated drowning that U.S. officials had previously deemed a crime -- prompted a sudden torrent of names and facts. Abu Zubaida began unspooling the details of various al-Qaeda plots, including plans to unleash weapons of mass destruction.
Abu Zubaida's revelations triggered a series of alerts and sent hundreds of CIA and FBI investigators scurrying in pursuit of phantoms. The interrogations led directly to the arrest of Jose Padilla, the man Abu Zubaida identified as heading an effort to explode a radiological "dirty bomb" in an American city. Padilla was held in a naval brig for 3 1/2 years on the allegation but was never charged in any such plot. Every other lead ultimately dissolved into smoke and shadow, according to high-ranking former U.S. officials with access to classified reports.
"We spent millions of dollars chasing false alarms," one former intelligence official said.
I am not surprised. Why? Because this is exactly what I've been saying for years is what torture does, it gets the answers the torturers want to hear. It pollutes the information stream and diverts limited assets to chasing after false leads, and up blind alleys.
That's when the blind alleys and false leads don't get people killed.
They had what they needed. They'd gotten information from him by the usual methods. They'd gotten corroborating information from other sources. But they didn't believe it, and they knew they could make him talk.
They were right.
What they couldn't do was make him know things he didn't; but they could make him say them.
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 06:47 am (UTC)Others in the U.S. government, including CIA officials, fear the consequences of taking a man into court who was waterboarded on largely false assumptions, because of the prospect of interrogation methods being revealed in detail and because of the chance of an acquittal that might set a legal precedent. Instead, they would prefer to send him to Jordan.
Yeah, well, they OUGHT to be worried. And their worries ought to be their own problem.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 11:24 am (UTC)Jesus fucking CHRIST.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 12:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 02:40 pm (UTC)"Yes sir." said the anonymous White House official.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-12 03:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-13 02:06 am (UTC)I made the mistake (it was an informal class, part of a course on intruction), of using an acronym (as if I were giving a refresher on the topic, not teaching it for the first time).
Three of the people in the class all sat up, as rigid as you please. One of them shot a look at the UNCLASS placard on my lectern, and then at the open door.
"Where did you say that gets sent?"
I answered the question, and they all relaxed. But the way they overreacted made me, painfully aware, that I'd just broached a term of art for their discipline. Being that it was related to mine I had a good idea what it was.
To this day (even to writing this story) I still can't bring myself to tell it with the acronym in it; even though it's been declassed. I've filed that whole thing in the "classified" section of my brain.
But no, Cheney doesn't think it applies to him, recall that he, "declassified" Valerie Plame, long enough to make it, in theory, plausibly deniable for his aides to out her.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-13 02:14 am (UTC)I was perusing my blueprint (it was a bitch of a part, lots of fun to work on, but still a pain in the ass). It seems that 1: having the right collection of blueprints would classify them.
2: The guy who wrote the classification block wasn't as clued in as he needed to be.
3: My shop was SO not qualified to accept classified materials (I was the only person in the place with a clearance, and that was pure chance).
4: Is spent 15 minutes parsing it all out, trying to figure out if a mistake had been made.
Classification, so much fun.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-13 11:06 am (UTC)I have a strong suspicion that it's impossible to follow all the rules. Note: I said impossible to follow; I don't even mean impossible to follow and still get work done. I mean simply impossible.
Sigh.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-13 05:48 pm (UTC)But the combination of overclassification, and seeing things which don't need to be classified leads to certain types of contempt.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-17 12:45 pm (UTC)