Masochism, Duty, or what?

[pecunium]

I really ought not to drop in on people like Andrew Sullivan. His attempts at pithy little snarks rarely amuse, often annoy and on occasion, (like today) actually offend.

QUOTE FOR THE DAY I: "I'd much rather be doing this than figthing a war," - helicopter pilot Lt. Cmdr. William Whitsitt, helping the survivors of the south Asian tsunami. Earth to Whitsitt: you're a soldier.

I don't know what Andy thought he was doing, just what message that little mal mot was supposed to convey ("Abandon all humanity, ye who enter here?) but having been to a war, and having helped people, I'd rather be doing the latter than the former.

If Sullivan wants to question why... I'll be more than willing to hand him a rifle, a flack vest, and a Basic Load, and take him for a couple of long walks in Falluja.

But until he takes me up on the offer, well he can shut the fuck up. We don't bottle up our decency just because we've accepted the obligation of killing people for the Sullivans of the world, people who are to tidy t0o get their hands personally dirty, but more than willing to let other people go and get killed when they have an agenda that can't be finished with dimplomacy (even more, who are willing to keep arguing for failed policy, and to send more troops into the meat-grinder, so we don't lose face (never mind that the abject failure of the state goals, and complete impossibility of the re-framed goals is ruining not just our position in the orld, but our economy, and maybe everyone else's. I wonder what that sort of failure will bring to pass).

And Sullivan knows it, "i'm sorry but i pay for those soldiers to fight in a volunteer army. they are servants of people like me who will never fight. yes, servants of civil masters. and they will do what they are told by people who would never go to war. that's called a democracy.

That attidude may be the best argument for the reinstatement of a draft I've ever heard, but the draft I want, they'll never pass (right now, I'd want a dead even lottery, no exemptions, and the children of everyone in federal office to be drafted... with a lottery to decide which ones get to join the PBI)

So Sully (not that he'll ever read this) put-up, or shut up. You owe some people apologies, and until then, you can kiss my ass.

Comments

[texaslawchick.livejournal.com]

You might want to send this post to his letters section. The one thing I do like about Andrew Sullivan is that he's pretty good about putting dissenting views on his website.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

But he skews the field. Rarely are they (or so it seems to me) put up as legitimate dissent, but rather the gifted bleateings of the ill-informed.

No, I didn't like him much before.

TK

[sinboy.livejournal.com]

I agree. Send him a letter. He should appologize to soldiers everywhere. The idea that he considers soldiers to be SERVANTS!?. What an ass. You'd think he'd show the people who protect his (immigrant) citizenship *with thier lives* a bit more respect.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I wish he'd focus on the whole "public servant" bit of political life for a bit, instead.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

But sully isn't a public servant. He's a taking head, a sounding brass, a pundit. Heis fame (we can't call it merit) stems fro people lapping up the stuff he peddles [ok, I'm irked, and it makes me less than charitable, the class of political animal he belongs to is not one which serves, it; when it works, informs. When it isn't working, it, at best, tittilates.

This is the stuff Jon Stewart was railing against.

TK

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I wasn't clear.

I didn't mean that the fourth estate are public servants.

I meant that he doesn't seem to remember that the legislature is supposed to be comprised of public servants, as is the executive.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Oh, if I haven't share this with you already -- I think you missed this bit because you've been out on vacation...

I think Andrew Sullivan and his ilk are methane breathers.

[supergee.livejournal.com]

This is the guy who took 4 years to figure out that the Bush administration really doesn't like gay people.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

"i'm sorry but i pay for those soldiers to fight in a volunteer army. they are servants of people like me who will never fight. yes, servants of civil masters. and they will do what they are told by people who would never go to war. that's called a democracy.

Christ, what an arrogant fuck.

[tongodeon.livejournal.com]

Actually I'm wondering what the hell he means. "I'm sorry but i pay for those soldiers" sounds a lot like "well I paid for this four-wheeler so I might as well drive it around". This isn't arrogance - this is conspicuous consumerism.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Conspicuous consumerism is a very good way to put it. I'd classify that as a kind of arrogance, though, because it's an assertion of his privilege to waste a shared resource, and if that isn't arrogant, what is? It's made even more so by the fact that the "shared resource," in this case, is the lives of his fellow citizens.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

He pays for a part of them.

But, since my income, as one of those soldiers, is taxed (and when I had a civilian job too, the total pay was about equal to my tax debt) I can claim to be self-employed.

So Sully has a one vote, and I have one vote, and there are some 3 million (to round up, a tad) other self-employed members of the service, so SUlly's say in the matter is pretty small, even if we don't count the other 200 million people.

Oh, wait... Sully isn't actually a citizen (last I checked) so he doesn't get a vote.

See previous comment.

TK

[sethg]

It's worse than that. Note that the soldier, er, naval aviator he quotes isn't refusing to fight; the guy just says there are things he'd rather do than fight. In other words, he's not 100% in love with his job.

Apparently, to Sullivan, a "public servant" should be like one of those old family retainers who not only does whatever his master requests, but makes his master's interests and priorities his own. (You can be damn sure that our Commander-in-Chief would rather fight a war than help survivors of a natural disaster.)

That's not consumerism; that's nostalgia for feudalism. Or maybe Sullivan forgot that most people don't have the luxury of living off income generated by the work they love to do most.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

We don't know that he isn't 100 percent in love with his job.

I can't really say there is much about my job, for the army, which makes it unloveable. There are moments, sure (some of them pretty long moments), but even the crap is ok.

And let's not kid ourselves, Lt. Commander takes some effort. In the Army/Corps, he's the same as a Major. That's a retirement grade (i.e. he can coast to twenty, and get a pension). In a field as crowded as aviation, it means he's dedicated.

He's probably done no small amount of the idendification you describe.

And this job, the one Sullivan mocks him for preferring, is something he was ordered to do.

No, Sully is unhappy about the veiled comment that the war in Iraq isn't the place this guy wants to be, or at least that given the choise, he'd rather be doing this mission, than that one.

Sully doesn't want servants, he wants automatons.

And having been reared in Britain (though not as far off his hind legs as we might like), and being well off, yearning for some throwback to the days of meaningful aristocracy isn't all that surprising.

TK

[madshutterbug.livejournal.com]

Having been to a war, being in a generation which did experience a draft, your's is a sight more generous than mine. IF there's going to be one, I'd rather see one which finds service for everyone, somewhere, despite physical / mental standings... somehow, somewhere. Either draft everyone, or no one.

On the other hand, I also recognize I live in a less than perfect world. Somewhere between the two views is where a draft, if any, would fall.

Meanwhile, I agree with you re. Mr. Sullivan. I smell the shades of Rome there.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

We can't afford universal service. We are not switzerland, nor even England. Putting 10 million people in uniform would break us (because it's more than the low pay (and with that many, it would have to be low, which would make the troubles of keeping a professional core harder).

It's also how such service would become make work.

So an army, suitable to our needs, with no excepmtions, and I mean none, and real exams, should someone come in with a note from a doctor (yes it would cost, but less than the appearance of favoritism would), and all the other ways the system was gamed to to keep the middle class from bearing any real part of the draft, esp. once the war in Viet-nam got hot.

TK

[madshutterbug.livejournal.com]

Actually, I agree with you. On the one hand is my dream, and on the other hand is Reality. We (as a nation) couldn't afford universal draft, as well as there truly some situations which would preclude an ability to serve. And yes, probably much of such service would be make work.

On the gripping hand is the fact that certain Realities can not be described adequately to someone who has not experienced them, and those who have experienced them need no description.

BTW, totally off topic, I browsed your photos... nice work!

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to go look at the whole thing; the bits you quoted made me thoroughly sick. Servants, indeed.

I could support a draft that was universal, with no exemptions whatsoever under any conditions except that the person was literally too physically or mentally disabled to contribute anything. Everyone became eligible on their 18th birthday or the day of their graduation from high school, whichever came first, the lottery was totally (visibly, provably) randomized, and the eligibility lasted for a specified time, after which people not yet drafted knew they wouldn't be. I would want employers and educational institutions to be required to take the person back, in the same position, at the end of service. I would want the government to provide adequate pay and benefits for the serviceperson and any dependents he or she had at the time of the draft, at minimum.

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

And shall we acquaint Mr. Sullivan with the fiscal realities that send the "servant" class into the armed forces in preference of getting advanced degrees in economics?

Some days, I really hate Capitalists.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

Mr. Sullivan is worse than that (though perhaps we can blame his breeding).

Since the helicopter pilot he was, specifically rude to, holds a commission, he is possessed of a degree, which means he is probably not of the working class.

But, for Mr. sullivan his being in the service strips him of that class, and reduces him to just another slob, to be ordereed to kill at Sully's whim.

TK

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Earth to Sullivan:

1. The title "Lieutenant Commander" should be a clue to you that Lt. Cmdr. William Whitsitt is a sailor, or more properly a Naval Aviator. If you wish a more generic term I recommend service member.

2. Lt. Cmdr. William Whitsitt is a commissioned officer of the U.S. Government. As such he is not a civil servant, is not part of the Civil Service, and is in fact a direct representative of the President and the Congress.

3. While I sympathize with your point that government employees work for the People of the United States, they work for the People in Common, not specifically for you. Perhaps a review of the Federalist Papers, and the concept of things held in Common, might help clear your mind of its muddled thoughts.

4. Even though Lt. Cmdr. William Whitsitt is a sailor, and thus a member of the inferior service within the Department of the Navy, this retired Marine Master Sergeant would still bet he's worth at least three of you on a bad day.

Earth out.

[madshutterbug.livejournal.com]

Semper Fi!

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I agree.

Sully is blind if he cannot see why a soldier would rather help out a disaster victim than fight a war.

Aid to the civil power is a major military role up here in Canada.

Also rather autocratic, didn't we criticize the Germans for following orders?

[mesoterica.livejournal.com]

Wow. Just... wow. I could rant on this one for hours, I think, so I'll just leave it at that.

[rivka.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your service, Terry. And your commentary.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

The service... I never know what to say to thanks for that. You get the benefit, but I did it for me. We'll call it an unintended consequence.

The commentary, you are more than welcome. It's libertango's fault, when all is said and done, but you are welcome.

TK

Nailing Sully

[(Anonymous)]

Here's my take on your piece, and some of the other responses that Sully has received:
http://www.geoffarnold.com/mt-archives/000376.html

Cheers,

Geoff (gradually recovering from flu - first time in 8 years, no prizes for guessing why)

[fidelioscabinet.livejournal.com]

Do you suppose if people stopped paying attention to this fool he'd wither up and die, lie a potted plant without water or sunlight?

You know, I'd really hate to have a military that would rather break things than fix them, rather kill people than help them. That would be bad. Creepy, even.

As for the servants of the state thing? I am one, and if anyone thinks that the people who carry out government policies, whether it's in the highway department, the prison system, or anywhere else, doesn't have opinions about what they're expected to do, it's time they achieved some enlightenment on that topic.