More (as if most of you needed it) of the reasons torture doesn't work

[pecunium]

The Lybians admit they tortured the medics they sentenced to death, and then held hostage for ransom.

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you, to discover that they made false confessions as a result.

And way back when, we shipped Maher Arar to Syria, so he could be tortured (and we'd have, "clean" hands). That one was offensive on lots of levels (not least because he was a Canadian, only in the US because he had to change planes). Why? They also suggest that the investigation of Mr. Arar was prompted by the coerced confession of Ahmad Abou el-Maati, a Kuwaiti-born Canadian who was also imprisoned and tortured in Syria.

That was in today's New York Times Of note, though not at all shocking, is that the US Gov't wanted that supressed. More interesting is this, The newly released sections indicate that neither the Syrian government nor the Federal Bureau of Investigation were convinced that Mr. Arar was a significant security threat.

Yep. The FBI, and the Syrians were of the opinion this was nonsense. The CIA, it seems, had a different view.

Why? Because someone who had been tortured named him, and the CIA has people who say torture works; they may even believe it.

How does this affect the data stream in other cases?

It spoils it.

When you read the Vanity Fair article I linked to a couple of days ago, you will see that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, falsely confessed to killing Daniel Pearl.

If he was willing to make that sort of false confession, how much else of what he "confessed" to is solid information? Also on that point, how much effort has to be diverted from other things, to check out and confirm/deny the things to which he's confessed?

If we torture those whom we are questioning to confirm/deny those things, how shall we vett the information they give up?

There's a simple answer, one that's proved effective for decades, even centuries... don't torture them. The info you get is more likely to be valid; confirming/denying it will be faster/more reliable, and the problems of positive feedback decline.

It's also more likely to get information with speed, which is the most important aspect of collecting intel.

Comments

[sinboy.livejournal.com]

If he was willing to make that sort of false confession, how much else of what he "confessed" to is solid information?

With no way to verify that *any* information he gave us resulted in anything useful, all we have to go on is the word of the Bush administration, who claims that they're really sure it saved lives.

[michael-b-lee.livejournal.com]

I'd never ask you to divulge actual practices, but I would love to know how one does go about gleaning useful intel from a subject who has been culturally and operationally indoctrinated to view you with absolute hatred and mistrust. How do you begin to get them to divulge sensitive information when that's the last means they have of striking back at you?

It's a fascinating and daunting challenge from my perspective. I suspect that interrogation is, at base, much more art than science.

[pecunium.livejournal.com]

I can give you links (rather than, at great length, re-invent the wheel).

An entry on Electrolite (before the merge).

Comment at Obsidian Wings

Both of those probably benefit from reading the thread. More stuff comes out later, and they are responses to things said earlier.

TK

[martyn44.livejournal.com]

I was watching a biography of George Orwell today and was forced to think what he would have made of people who imagine they are defending 'freedom' by using 1984 as a primer rather than a warning.

[bifemmefatale.livejournal.com]

I suspect he would have a concussion from headdesking repeatedly.

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

What makes you think they check-out such confessions to confirm their validity? The guy wouldn't have been imprisoned if he weren't guilty, and he confessed (under "questioning"), so the matter is solved and we can move on to something else. It's much on a par with "Of course they're [Viet Cong/Taliban/Al Qua'eda/Insurgents] -- they're dead, aren't they?".

[michael-b-lee.livejournal.com]

Thanks for these. I'll definitely give them a read.