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pecuniumToday may be busy here.
Today is "Blog Against racism day, but I can't think of anything trenchant to say.
Today is also the anniversary of Rosa Parks' arrest. She was no shrinking violet, and her decision (as she told it) to remain seated wasn't because she was tired (which makes her one sort of martyr, but a sort of accidental one) but one of princible, she'd had enough (which makes her a more compelling martyr, as she went into it with her eyes open).
A friend of mine sent me an article the day before yesterday, about a different woman, on a different bus, dealing with a different (and no less compelling) problem.
Our creeping police state.
Refusal to present ID sparks test of rights
Arvada woman said 'no' at Federal Center while on public bus
By Karen Abbott, Rocky Mountain News
November 29, 2005
Federal prosecutors are reviewing whether to pursue charges against an Arvada woman who refused to show identification to federal police while riding an RTD bus through the Federal Center in Lakewood.
Deborah Davis, 50, was ticketed for two petty offenses Sept. 26 by officers who commonly board the RTD bus as it passes through the Federal Center and ask passengers for identification.
Irksome, but perhaps not so bad. She was entering a federal facilty, and they wanted to check ID.
Here's what was said about it, on Papers Please
The bus she rides crosses the property of the Denver Federal Center, a collection of government offices such as the Veterans Administration, the U.S. Geological Survey, and part of the National Archives. The Denver Federal Center is not a high security area: it's not Area 51 or NORAD.
On her first day commuting to work by bus, the bus stopped at the gates of the Denver Federal Center. A security guard got on and demanded that all of the passengers on this public bus produce ID. She was surprised by the demand of the man in uniform, but she complied: it would have meant a walk of several miles if she hadn't. Her ID was not taken and compared to any "no-ride" list. The guard barely glanced at it.
When she got home, what had happened on the bus began to bother her. 'This is not a police state or communist Russia', she thought. From her 8th grade Civics class she knew there is no law requiring her, as an American citizen, to carry ID or any papers, much less show them to anyone on a public bus.
She decided she would no longer show her ID on the bus.
And I can agree with that. She wasn't specifically trying to enter the complex. In fact she has no choice but to enter it, if she want's to take public transit.
On Monday, September 26th 2005, Deb Davis headed off to work on the route 100 bus. When the bus got to the gates of the Denver Federal Center, a guard got on and asked her if she had an ID. She answered in the affirmative. He asked if he could see it. She said no.
When the guard asked why she wouldn't show her ID, Deb told him that she didn't have to do so. The guard then ordered her off the bus. Deb refused, stating she was riding a public bus and just trying to get to work.
The guard then went to call his supervisor, and returned shortly with a federal policeman. The federal cop then demanded her ID. Deb politely explained once again that she would not show her ID, and she was simply commuting to work. He left, returning shortly thereafter with a second policeman in tow.
This second cop asked the same question and got the same answer: no showing of ID, no getting off the bus.
The cop was also annoyed with the fact that she was on the phone with a friend and didn't feel like hanging up, even when he 'ordered' her to do so.
The second cop said everyone had to show ID any time they were asked by the police, adding that if she were in a Wal-Mart and was asked by the police for ID, that she would have to show it there, too.
She explained that she didn't have to show him or any other policeman my ID on a public bus or in a Wal-Mart. She told him she was simply trying to go to work.
Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center.
The upshot was that she was cited, and released. I don't know what the charges are, the Rocky Moutain News only saying she was, "ticketed for refusing to show her ID."
So her cell phone was tossed across the bus, she was forcibly arrested, and hauled away, and the upshot was... a federal jaywalking ticket.
She was also told that if she ever (ID or not) came onto the Federal Center property again (with, I assume an exeption for her court date) she'd be arrested.
The argument is this a security issue.
Bullshit.
What it sounds like is contempt of cop.
As a security issue it's a non-starter. She wasn't going into the Federal Center, she was riding a bus which happens to go through it. I'd allow as they have the right to place a guard at the bus stop, and check the ID of those who get out. It's stupid (unless the guy has a watch list, and checks it, then nothing other than looking busy, or perhaps intimidating the public, is actually happening), but it's probably legal.
But she wasn't getting off the bus. The cop (probabaly a member of the Federal Police, who have bery limited jurisdiction, pretty much limited to places like the Federal Center... which is to say they have less power in Westwood, Calif. than the Univerity Cops, who are granted jurisdiction in the city, as well as the campus. Security guards on steroids is what they are) came on the bus an asserted an authority he ought not have.
And she called him on it. Not only that she didn't show him the deference he thought he desserved (the tossing of her cell phone across the bus is one of the things which makes me think this is the case, given the result of the arrest)
What crime was ocuuring? None. From the reports he did an eyeball scan of every passenger's ID. Whoopee. I've been in a lot of such scans (being in the Army will give one lots of chances to show ID). A guy gets on, everyone takes out ID, he glances at it; probably doesn't so much as touch it and gets off.
Maybe, and I mean maybe, this guy is looking for signs of guilty concsience, but I doubt it. Why? Because the people on the bus weren't getting off. If someone was going to be a suicide bomber, or plant anthrax, or go on a shooting spree, or (name the possibility which gives you the greatest case of the creeping horrors) there isn't anything an ID will prevent.
There's a damned simple answer to this,
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...
Black letter law, US Constitution, Fourth Amendment.
Because, if you ask me, random checks of ID, as Security Theater, counts as unreasonable.
Today is "Blog Against racism day, but I can't think of anything trenchant to say.
Today is also the anniversary of Rosa Parks' arrest. She was no shrinking violet, and her decision (as she told it) to remain seated wasn't because she was tired (which makes her one sort of martyr, but a sort of accidental one) but one of princible, she'd had enough (which makes her a more compelling martyr, as she went into it with her eyes open).
A friend of mine sent me an article the day before yesterday, about a different woman, on a different bus, dealing with a different (and no less compelling) problem.
Our creeping police state.
Refusal to present ID sparks test of rights
Arvada woman said 'no' at Federal Center while on public bus
By Karen Abbott, Rocky Mountain News
November 29, 2005
Federal prosecutors are reviewing whether to pursue charges against an Arvada woman who refused to show identification to federal police while riding an RTD bus through the Federal Center in Lakewood.
Deborah Davis, 50, was ticketed for two petty offenses Sept. 26 by officers who commonly board the RTD bus as it passes through the Federal Center and ask passengers for identification.
Irksome, but perhaps not so bad. She was entering a federal facilty, and they wanted to check ID.
Here's what was said about it, on Papers Please
The bus she rides crosses the property of the Denver Federal Center, a collection of government offices such as the Veterans Administration, the U.S. Geological Survey, and part of the National Archives. The Denver Federal Center is not a high security area: it's not Area 51 or NORAD.
On her first day commuting to work by bus, the bus stopped at the gates of the Denver Federal Center. A security guard got on and demanded that all of the passengers on this public bus produce ID. She was surprised by the demand of the man in uniform, but she complied: it would have meant a walk of several miles if she hadn't. Her ID was not taken and compared to any "no-ride" list. The guard barely glanced at it.
When she got home, what had happened on the bus began to bother her. 'This is not a police state or communist Russia', she thought. From her 8th grade Civics class she knew there is no law requiring her, as an American citizen, to carry ID or any papers, much less show them to anyone on a public bus.
She decided she would no longer show her ID on the bus.
And I can agree with that. She wasn't specifically trying to enter the complex. In fact she has no choice but to enter it, if she want's to take public transit.
On Monday, September 26th 2005, Deb Davis headed off to work on the route 100 bus. When the bus got to the gates of the Denver Federal Center, a guard got on and asked her if she had an ID. She answered in the affirmative. He asked if he could see it. She said no.
When the guard asked why she wouldn't show her ID, Deb told him that she didn't have to do so. The guard then ordered her off the bus. Deb refused, stating she was riding a public bus and just trying to get to work.
The guard then went to call his supervisor, and returned shortly with a federal policeman. The federal cop then demanded her ID. Deb politely explained once again that she would not show her ID, and she was simply commuting to work. He left, returning shortly thereafter with a second policeman in tow.
This second cop asked the same question and got the same answer: no showing of ID, no getting off the bus.
The cop was also annoyed with the fact that she was on the phone with a friend and didn't feel like hanging up, even when he 'ordered' her to do so.
The second cop said everyone had to show ID any time they were asked by the police, adding that if she were in a Wal-Mart and was asked by the police for ID, that she would have to show it there, too.
She explained that she didn't have to show him or any other policeman my ID on a public bus or in a Wal-Mart. She told him she was simply trying to go to work.
Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center.
The upshot was that she was cited, and released. I don't know what the charges are, the Rocky Moutain News only saying she was, "ticketed for refusing to show her ID."
So her cell phone was tossed across the bus, she was forcibly arrested, and hauled away, and the upshot was... a federal jaywalking ticket.
She was also told that if she ever (ID or not) came onto the Federal Center property again (with, I assume an exeption for her court date) she'd be arrested.
The argument is this a security issue.
Bullshit.
What it sounds like is contempt of cop.
As a security issue it's a non-starter. She wasn't going into the Federal Center, she was riding a bus which happens to go through it. I'd allow as they have the right to place a guard at the bus stop, and check the ID of those who get out. It's stupid (unless the guy has a watch list, and checks it, then nothing other than looking busy, or perhaps intimidating the public, is actually happening), but it's probably legal.
But she wasn't getting off the bus. The cop (probabaly a member of the Federal Police, who have bery limited jurisdiction, pretty much limited to places like the Federal Center... which is to say they have less power in Westwood, Calif. than the Univerity Cops, who are granted jurisdiction in the city, as well as the campus. Security guards on steroids is what they are) came on the bus an asserted an authority he ought not have.
And she called him on it. Not only that she didn't show him the deference he thought he desserved (the tossing of her cell phone across the bus is one of the things which makes me think this is the case, given the result of the arrest)
What crime was ocuuring? None. From the reports he did an eyeball scan of every passenger's ID. Whoopee. I've been in a lot of such scans (being in the Army will give one lots of chances to show ID). A guy gets on, everyone takes out ID, he glances at it; probably doesn't so much as touch it and gets off.
Maybe, and I mean maybe, this guy is looking for signs of guilty concsience, but I doubt it. Why? Because the people on the bus weren't getting off. If someone was going to be a suicide bomber, or plant anthrax, or go on a shooting spree, or (name the possibility which gives you the greatest case of the creeping horrors) there isn't anything an ID will prevent.
There's a damned simple answer to this,
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...
Black letter law, US Constitution, Fourth Amendment.
Because, if you ask me, random checks of ID, as Security Theater, counts as unreasonable.
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Let me play devil's advocate here
Date: 2005-12-01 06:34 pm (UTC)This is essentialy a stitch job of countless conservative arguments I've seen over at The Volokh Conspiracy, Intel Dump, Powerline, LGF, Michelle Malkin's blog, etc..
What they're essentally saying is that, in a time of war, 'unreasonable' is a relative thing. The 'right to be secure' is a relative thing. 'Freedom' is a relative thing.
Re: Let me play devil's advocate here
Date: 2005-12-01 08:22 pm (UTC)The answer of course being...no, no more than Spain is with ETA or England with the IRA.
Either you're in a war that you can never possibly win or you are in fact treating criminals like an oposing army...
no subject
Date: 2005-12-01 06:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-01 06:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-01 06:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-01 07:14 pm (UTC)And I remember that the only time I've really relied on public transportation was when I didn't really have a valid ID. What happens then?
no subject
Date: 2005-12-01 08:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-12-01 11:09 pm (UTC)The Violation alleged is 41 CFR 102-74 3[illegible].
That the Department of Commerce regulation for managing leased property.
It's possible, based on the charge written (refusal to show ID when attempting to enter the Denver Federal Center) that on technical grounds (as though we ought to consider the truth to be techincality) the case will be thrown out.
In theory such a result would prohibit such random check from being done, but then again a PD in Florida has said it plans to make random raids on banks, and the like, and refuse to allow anyone to leave until they show ID.
One presumes refusal to comply would lead to arrest on a similar charge.
TK
no subject
Date: 2005-12-02 01:59 pm (UTC)Huh. Any more keywords on that story, so I can maybe go hunt it down?
no subject
Date: 2005-12-02 03:57 pm (UTC)TK
no subject
Date: 2005-12-02 04:00 pm (UTC)