We get letters (updated)
Jul. 5th, 2007 09:07 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pecuniumRyan, the founder of Concientious Traveller, discovered the first piece I wrote.
He takes exceptions, and saw fit to send them to me. (you really ought to go and see the responses he's sent me)
He's offended that I said this was a scam, and asks what my problem is with his enterprise.
Ok, here are my specific problems: it's an insane idea which can never work; a mad enterprise which will, if actually undertaken, be lucky to end no more badly than a bunch of people in prison in someplace unpleasant.
That's the short version.
The long version.
What he is proposing is illegal. It's kidnapping people. To make it worse it's then taking them to some other place and making them prisoners of a different sort. They won't be refugees. They won't legally be allowed to go anyplace (except, pehaps, the place from whence they were stolen away). They will be at the mercy of those who stole them. It may be with the best of intentions, but that's what he proposes.
He claims to want to turn these girls into some sort of political players, people who will go home and reform the places from whence they came.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
When asked about getting passports for them (so they may attend university) the it goes like this:
Q: "But just because they are accepted to a university in Europe or the US doesn't mean that they'll be allowed to take up permanent residence. (How do you even propose to establish these children's identities, get birth certificates, passports etc., that will allow them to travel?)"
A: I never said they would. Now your asking very detailed information and it's not going to be answered, one as I don't deal with this part and secondly as this is not for public forums.
Not inspiring.
If he manages to kidnap some girls, they will be, at best (if all the madcap schemes work), like Ahmad Chalabi, seen as puppets for someone else's interest. At worst, they will go home, preach his brand of world reformation, and be locked up/killed, for being a threat to the gov't/society.
I'd love to see places like Burma become better places. Does anyone think I know enough about the situation to collect a bunch of "sex slaves" from Burma, take them to an island, where I've brought some others from Thailand, Laos, the Dominican Republic, etc, train them all; in, I assume, the same philosophical underpinnings of how the word ought to be (that's why I chose Plato's "Philosopher King" analogy, and they will be able to go home, to a society they were never fully a part of, and take over? All the while running a nature preserve and breeding up endangered animals to repopulate in the wild (I really like that touch, it gets the warm-fuzzie sorts of the "save the planet" sorts to buy into this).
No.
His responses elsewhere (this has become so my father tells me, a huge discussion at CouchSurfing because he's trying to recruit people to help him market Concientious Traveller, by selling them on the "altruistic" works of the subsidaries which will change the world by kidnapping children in the sex trade and brainwashing them into political missionaries for his utopic vision of a future world) don't make me feel any better about this.
Which was the other stuff, packed in there, which disturbing me.
What about the white girls in the same boat. There are women in, Japan Israel, Korea, and, I am sure, a few more places, who were lured with offers of jobs, and then forced into being prostitutes. I don't see mention of this.
I think it's because they are adults. Because they aren't likely to be pliable enough to be brainwashed into thinking they are going to be the salvation of the world.
I don't think it's concious version of the "White Man's Burden" and going out to help the poor, backwards Orientals join the civilised world, but that does seem to be part of the driving mindset.
I don't like the sex trade. I think the commodification of people is horrid. Going off on a vigilante raid to kidnap them, and then, "rehabilitate" them, much less training them to be advocates of his agenda, well... No.
That's at least as bad.
He takes exceptions, and saw fit to send them to me. (you really ought to go and see the responses he's sent me)
He's offended that I said this was a scam, and asks what my problem is with his enterprise.
Ok, here are my specific problems: it's an insane idea which can never work; a mad enterprise which will, if actually undertaken, be lucky to end no more badly than a bunch of people in prison in someplace unpleasant.
That's the short version.
The long version.
What he is proposing is illegal. It's kidnapping people. To make it worse it's then taking them to some other place and making them prisoners of a different sort. They won't be refugees. They won't legally be allowed to go anyplace (except, pehaps, the place from whence they were stolen away). They will be at the mercy of those who stole them. It may be with the best of intentions, but that's what he proposes.
He claims to want to turn these girls into some sort of political players, people who will go home and reform the places from whence they came.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
When asked about getting passports for them (so they may attend university) the it goes like this:
Q: "But just because they are accepted to a university in Europe or the US doesn't mean that they'll be allowed to take up permanent residence. (How do you even propose to establish these children's identities, get birth certificates, passports etc., that will allow them to travel?)"
A: I never said they would. Now your asking very detailed information and it's not going to be answered, one as I don't deal with this part and secondly as this is not for public forums.
Not inspiring.
If he manages to kidnap some girls, they will be, at best (if all the madcap schemes work), like Ahmad Chalabi, seen as puppets for someone else's interest. At worst, they will go home, preach his brand of world reformation, and be locked up/killed, for being a threat to the gov't/society.
I'd love to see places like Burma become better places. Does anyone think I know enough about the situation to collect a bunch of "sex slaves" from Burma, take them to an island, where I've brought some others from Thailand, Laos, the Dominican Republic, etc, train them all; in, I assume, the same philosophical underpinnings of how the word ought to be (that's why I chose Plato's "Philosopher King" analogy, and they will be able to go home, to a society they were never fully a part of, and take over? All the while running a nature preserve and breeding up endangered animals to repopulate in the wild (I really like that touch, it gets the warm-fuzzie sorts of the "save the planet" sorts to buy into this).
No.
His responses elsewhere (this has become so my father tells me, a huge discussion at CouchSurfing because he's trying to recruit people to help him market Concientious Traveller, by selling them on the "altruistic" works of the subsidaries which will change the world by kidnapping children in the sex trade and brainwashing them into political missionaries for his utopic vision of a future world) don't make me feel any better about this.
Which was the other stuff, packed in there, which disturbing me.
What about the white girls in the same boat. There are women in, Japan Israel, Korea, and, I am sure, a few more places, who were lured with offers of jobs, and then forced into being prostitutes. I don't see mention of this.
I think it's because they are adults. Because they aren't likely to be pliable enough to be brainwashed into thinking they are going to be the salvation of the world.
I don't think it's concious version of the "White Man's Burden" and going out to help the poor, backwards Orientals join the civilised world, but that does seem to be part of the driving mindset.
I don't like the sex trade. I think the commodification of people is horrid. Going off on a vigilante raid to kidnap them, and then, "rehabilitate" them, much less training them to be advocates of his agenda, well... No.
That's at least as bad.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 05:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 07:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 07:44 pm (UTC)It's more like brothel to convent.
TK
no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 10:09 pm (UTC)Among other things, if this is purely altruistic, why isn't he interested in saving boys from the sex trade?
I have answered
Date: 2007-07-06 07:33 am (UTC)I'm sorry if the FAQ is so long, but due to all of this, your questions are important and have been answred.
Ryan
no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 08:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 08:26 pm (UTC)I am taking him as seriously as I am (which isn't as much as it might appear) because he is managing to be somewhat visible.
There are people, well-meaning, but ill-informed, who might take him seriously, and the last thing I want is for him to actually attempt this.
I also don't want other people to spend money they oughtn't on him, be he con-artist, or not.
TK
Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-05 09:15 pm (UTC)2. You are accusing me off brainwashing girls for political activation, which politics has nothing to do with White Orchid, I do state what my political intentions are on the web page, 'Political change'.
3. I am asking people to feel totally safe with me before, they offer to give anything as a gift.
4. bad vibes, OK, i can understand this as it has never been done before.
5. Really, please look at my comment responses, I did not get offended.
6. The school is not run by me, but teachers, they are currently talking with a number of people about the course structure.
7. Taking them away from their culture, hardly.
8. Kidnapping. How can you kidnap a girl kept in a brothel against her will.
9. This is a straight question to you Terry. What would you suggest as an alternative for helping these young girls?
10. An Island for girls that have escaped from the sex trade is finances by one government in South East Asia, I have spoken to the minister of health about this in person. "It is best for safety to have them on an Island"
The problem is, this lady does not even trust those in her own ministry.
11. On CS I have offered 30 people to travel for free. Not to make money from it. Round the world tickets. Is this such a bad thing to offer anyone? If so why. This is a separate division of what I do. 30 corp is part of Conscientious Traveler, but it is not about money. I'm offering 30 people to travel, that's all. If that's not clear, then I am not phrasing things in the right way, but each time I or someone in the team read things, they each say I mention these things over and over again.
Terry, you have looked at the site.
I am asking you, instead of doing your level best to mock and demean me, why not suggest what I could do to help them.
I have spent many years on this, and this is what is the result.
Ryan
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-05 10:25 pm (UTC)You want my answer, but you'll reject it. Work in the UK, petition your MP, and the PM to work on making it less profitable.
Because even if you pull this nonsense off, once, you can't stop the trade, at best you are putting a band-aid on a spouting artery.
You kidnap her because you are taking her by force. If you set up an agency, whereby they came to you, and you then got them out (a la the Underground Railroad, in the US) that would be different.
As I said, your answers are all smoke and mirrors. What is the SE Asian country financing the island, who is the minister of health. You won't tell me. It's got to be kept secret, for the good of the girls, &c., &c., &c.
I'm sorry, I misunderstood aspects of the "pyramid" structure of all of this; in a pyramid everything supports everything else. This, apparently, more like an umbrella.
As for CS, and 30 Co, you are asking people to support them, so you can attempt this other stuff. That's why I think it's bad. If CS is such a swell thing, it ought not need all the folderol of Blood Rose and White Orchid, &c.
I am mocking you, because I think what you are doing is ridiculous, and things which are foolhardy and dangerous, which fool people who can't see through the flim-flam into supporting them, deserve ridicule.
Is it pleasant to be ridiculed, no. But I can't help that. You put this hare-brained thing out there. I think it's dangerous. I can sit back and do nothing; which means it has no oppostion, or I can say what I think.
"If not me, who? If not now, when?"
TK
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-05 11:06 pm (UTC)1. Your opinion, OK.
2. The UN has a lot of sanctions against Burma for one, it also is an Illegal "government and trade with the UK is +200 million pounds per year. Our MP's can not do anything. 50 years of watching, yet your saying we should just watch. I am using Burma as an example of the ability of governments to lobby.
3. If you look at the Political Change part of what I do, this is in that field, of helping to elect people of conscience, that we will have nothing to do with once in politics, unlike oil companies etc wanting to have influence, we have none.
95% of the clients for these girls are local people, how would a UK MP make it less profitable? Serious question.
"Because even if you pull this nonsense off, once, you can't stop the trade, at best you are putting a band-aid on a spouting artery."
Very similar to something I say on the blog pages. WO is no band-aid, it's no attempt at changing the tide, that's Political Change and GEB.
"You kidnap her because you are taking her by force. If you set up an agency, whereby they came to you, and you then got them out (a la the Underground Railroad, in the US) that would be different."
No, you do not understand how we get these girls out and you do not know it is not with their consent, as you have not done this before. Do you know, most girls in in one country are unlikely to be of that nationality on child trafficking, they are moved to other countries to make them feel less able to escape, if they do, they do not speak the language. Read, Sex Slaves by Louise Brown, simple read, very informative for a first book on the subject.
I am happy to tell you the country and Minister of health in a private email, but I will not put this in a public forum as she asked this not to be in any press etc, as it breeds attention to this Island. Happy to give it to you privately, so email if you want this detail.
"I'm sorry, I misunderstood aspects of the "pyramid" structure of all of this; in a pyramid everything supports everything else. This, apparently, more like an umbrella."
No, it is pyramid structure of support.
As for CS, and 30 Co, you are asking people to support them, so you can attempt this other stuff. That's why I think it's bad. If CS is such a swell thing, it ought not need all the folderol of Blood Rose and White Orchid, &c.
CT - not CS. It is a separate thing, each division is. The only thing I'm doing differently to a normal company, is telling people what other things I am doing, telling people this is what the money goes towards. Would you prefer I simply made money from a pro profit and not do anything else?
"I am mocking you, because I think what you are doing is ridiculous, and things which are foolhardy and dangerous, which fool people who can't see through the flim-flam into supporting them, deserve ridicule."
You do not insult me but many intelligent people and only make yourself look less, I understand if you say things against what I'm doing, but in this way it seems less than what you are trying to say in a decent way.
Is it pleasant to be ridiculed, no. But I can't help that. You put this hare-brained thing out there. I think it's dangerous. I can sit back and do nothing; which means it has no opposition, or I can say what I think.
"If not me, who? If not now, when?"
TK
What part of hare-brained?
Please list and state which division and why?
I'm trying my best here Terry, that's all I can do.
Ryan
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-06 12:12 am (UTC)Part of why it is is that you don't listen to yourself. You say you understand that I appreciate how difficult it is. In the next sentence you sweep that under the rug.
Intelligence is cheap; the question isn't how smart they are, but how much they understand. Lots of intelligent people bought into Enron. A lot of intelligent people bought into Maggie Thatcher privatising things.
Both of those worked out a peach, didn't they?
I don't care about "looking" ridiculous; I care about the foolhardiness of this, and that you are probably going to convince some number of people to waste time, effort and money.
If I agreed with you, then you'd have some point. Since I don't (and have said so quite a bit) trying to shame me into silence, with the "invisble others" who are thinking less of me? So what. I don't know them, they don't know me.
Which would have been something you might have taken into consideration before you tried to persuade me. Because everyone (all, 700, or so) who reads this, now has more than my interpretation of your ideas; they have your defenses.
I don't think you've been persuasive.
TK
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-06 07:44 am (UTC)you insult me at every juncture, yet I simply try to answer your concerns.
Is this the best things for the girls, or for you to be argueing like this. Not debating which could actually achieve somethign more if lookedat in a better way.
I don't shame anyone, it svery obvious what i am doing, it's written ad spoken about in he site. I have also offered for you to have the info on the SEA Island and minister, yet you have not sent me an email. Why?
No one contacted e about you. I'm happy 700 people have seen this post, as from your side, you are taking away those who would not be involved and demeaning those that would.
So either way, you either strenghten my position by weakening yours, or you have people who are sheep to your opinion, based on your estimation of people making thier own decisions.
I'm asking you to think more about this, suggest a better way for me to help these girls.
You critisize Maggies government, and Enron, both huge things.... yet you compare me to both? You also speka of lobbying government after critisizing it.
I do understand your point, but really, suggest some alternatives more than lobbying overnment.
As you are in the Army, you have served in Iraq as I understand by your writings. Some of them I enjoyed to read, do you agree with the actions of the British and american governments being there? If not, why are you? If you do agree, why? I would personaly simply like to know, it is a seperate question to all of my things.
Ryan
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-06 02:51 am (UTC)There's also been legislation passed by many countries which allows for the prosecution of their citizens for crimes against children which have been committed in other countries. This isn't an issue that's being ignored. Err, wait a second... I suspect that would mean there's a major possibility of you and your associates being prosecuted should any of these girls (and boys?) prove to be underage.
You also mention repeatedly about how dangerous rescuing these girls will be. That someone might even be killed. When you talk about how Blood Rose will be willing to do whatever is necessary, that sounds a lot like engaging in violence. Does that mean injuring or killing those holding the girls? How do you plan on removing individuals without harm to innocent bystanders? And, if your action is met with the kind of violence which could result in Blood Rose deaths, are you concerned that this might also result in the deaths of the girls you're proposing to rescue? Our host can speak to this far better than I can, but as I understand it there is always a risk in hostage rescues etc that hostages will be killed. Even if that doesn't happen, should the rescue mission fail will the girls be questioned and subjected to punishment for having "liaised" with Blood Rose? It might be cheaper, and safer for everyone concerned, just to buy the girls.
How could you help apart from the fantasy island project? Well... the point of closing down the sex tourism trade was to make it necessary for certain countries to take the problem more seriously (losing the income from sex tourism requiring them to find alternative industries). Continued gentle poking is usually helpful. And the next step might well be to make these children more valuable to their families -- many children in brothels get there because they're sold/rented into slavery -- education and the provision of employment opportunities outside the sex trade can be useful in turning unwanted extra mouths into potential retirement funds. While prostitution is certainly not a lifestyle I want anyone to have to live much of the point is that those involved don't have an alternative that'll actually allow them to live (and in the case of being sold as a slave, allow other family members to stay alive too -- and that's apart from the large number of prostitutes sending money home). Even low level education -- frex reading and writing in their own language -- can open up new possibilities. Plus schemes similar to the various Prince's Trust initiatives -- providing seed money, practical support, and start-up loans etc to small business ventures seem to be working in other areas, where grand designs imposed by outsiders who've no grasp of the local geography and economy (World Bank funded schemes etc) tend to sink under the weight of their apparent good intentions.
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-06 07:54 am (UTC)1. You do not have innocent bystanders inside a brothel.
2. Will Blood Rose engage in violence, remember these people rape young girls, 2.1 why would you even care about this? 2.2 Maybe.
3. You need to know more about what these girls want and liasie, means being inside to find out, poseing as a customer, but not doing anything and simply taking all precaustions for theri safe rescue.
4. Leaflets - YOu are speaking about rasing awareness of the sex trade. What exactly does that do? 95% of the business is local peopple. Leaflets will simply make pedophiles more cautious.
5. Buying the girls is an option, this does not mean we own them before anyone says different, but buying an entire brothel full of girls looks very suspicious to these people, I have never heard of this happening. It does not mean it can not, but I think it would be very problematic. mayeb buying the youngest girls, 5 years +
6. Micro finanec is good, i agree.
7. Political Change and GEB are my solutions to the larger issues of sex trafficing.
Sex Tourism is only 5% of the problem. You only know about the examples of people from the west. Do you ever hear about the americans or fecnch sex tourists. No, as its not deemed news worthy.
I do appreciate these questions.
I hope I have answered them the best I can.
Ryan
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-07 03:39 am (UTC)You don't? How about the other whores? And since you're not concerning yourself with the boys... what about the boy whores? You're only going to rescue girls from single-sex rural brothels with no adult prostitutes? Brothels with no neighbouring houses, nobody walking down the street, no one delivering supplies, no one paid to do the laundry, no newly engaged bloke who was brought by a couple of friends as a joke, no kids hanging around hoping to earn money from running errands or... Brothels generally don't exist in isolation.
2. Will Blood Rose engage in violence, remember these people rape young girls, 2.1 why would you even care about this? 2.2 Maybe.
And raping young girls is wrong and nasty and bad. But so is GBH and murder. Why do I care about people being murdered? Well, I suspect that people with a very black and white sense of right and wrong, and whose first resort is to violence, are not the best caretakers of vulnerable and disturbed children.
3. You need to know more about what these girls want and liasie, means being inside to find out, poseing as a customer, but not doing anything and simply taking all precaustions for theri safe rescue.
And of course customers regularly pay for girls and don't use them, so you won't stand out at all. What if the girl in question doesn't want to be rescued? What if she finds what she's doing to be unpleasant but prefers to remain in her own country rather than going off with strange men who kill people? Why should she trust your agent? Why wouldn't she tell the brothel owner what you discuss? If she hasn't been indentured into prostitution as payment on a loan to her family but was abducted into slavery... why would she believe she'd end up anywhere but another, possibly more unpleasant, brothel?
4. Leaflets - YOu are speaking about rasing awareness of the sex trade. What exactly does that do? 95% of the business is local peopple. Leaflets will simply make pedophiles more cautious.
Maybe I should make that clearer, the fact that in my backwater town I get sent a leaflet to raise my awareness of the issues means that they're not exactly being ignored. Awareness leads to legislation, leads to people reporting suspicious activity, leads to prosecutions. Or... awareness leads to understanding of the complex problems, possibly to the kind of commitment of resources necessary to achieve cultural changes. Or perhaps it shames those in power into imposing and/or enforcing legislation and international treaties etc...
What exactly does abducting a hundred child prostitutes do? There's no shortage of children to take their places. And your plans for the future of these girls appear as simplistic as those for the rescue. Yes, you can take them to an island paradise (although I suspect this is a Western male concept of paradise and is going to involve the older girls doing a lot of household chores) but they're going to continue to be seriously damaged human beings... and you don't sound as if you're prepared for them to not want to do what you tell them, or to be 'bad' in other ways. And on an island where the only males will be in positions of authority over them, how on earth are they going to frex learn to cope with and express their developing sexuality? They're never going to be in a position of equality or superiority to a man. They're not going to have any male peers to experiment with, or to learn relationship building with. You're removing them from any contact with normal society... heck they're not even going to learn how to shop... What future life does that prepare them for?
Re: Founder Response
Date: 2007-07-07 03:40 am (UTC)I thought you said these girls were going to be able to choose whether to come with you, but now you're talking about liberating an entire brothel. Again the assumption that child prostitutes will not be confused by and wary of offers to take them away from all this.
BTW How many very young children do you expect to be taking? Because your staffing levels might be minimally acceptable for looking after co-operative teenagers but they're pretty inadequate for providing the near constant supervision required for a significant number of disturbed primary school aged children, and educating disturbed children of that age requires a great deal more than a Phd. And you don't appear to be considering the emotional needs of younger children... including the need for staff with well developed parenting skills.
[Oh, while I'm on the page... where's your vet? And why a Japanese stone garden... isn't imposing a Japanese cultural icon a little too ironic? Considering how many women from across SE Asia were raped to death in Japanese military brothels during WW2.]
7. Political Change and GEB are my solutions to the larger issues of sex trafficing.
So, what's Blood Rose the solution to?
no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 10:54 pm (UTC)The Team
Date: 2007-07-06 07:55 am (UTC)Ryan
Re: The Team
Date: 2007-07-06 04:02 pm (UTC)You say it goes on and on, but there's nothing to check, no way to verify.
It's you, pretty much alone, telling the world what wonderful things are going on, offstage.
There are lots of people who've gotten laws passed, lots of Ph.Ds in the world, lots of people who've worked with UNESCO, lots of psychologists; in private practice.
None of those things, by themselves, is worth a thing. Beucase they don't speak to those people's suitability to the "plan" you've put together.
Who have you got that's ever staged a snatch and grab? Who have you got who has ever run a boarding school (much less started one)? Have you anyone who knows how to speak to the girls you plan to steal away? How do you plan to supply the island? If you are going to grow your own food, who will do that?
How will you provide for water? What about serious medical care; in event of emergency (you need either a plane, chopper, or clinic; capable of minor surgery, and the staff to make it useful).
Who will design the curriculum? What of paying the people who are providing all these services? How about replacing people who decide it's not for them?
You've got a dream. When you are asked you say the answers are out there. Well I've looked, and I don't see answers. I see hints, promises and hand waving. Doctors are "being sourced" islands are being procured, people are being talked to and a "teacher who has written a law and had it passed in the USA" is on board."
Whoopee. One teacher. Is this person going to move to your island paradise? Or just provide moral support and guidance?
This thing you are proposing is huge. Even if it were a good idea, the costs in getting started are huge (and that leaves out the idiocy of the breeding compound/nature preserve). Maintaining it won't be cheap either.
Reearch on how to design a self-sustaining ecology in a system so small as an island (much less without destroying the system which already exists) alone is an expense I don't think you can manage.
You've made the proposal. That means you get to defend it. Saying "hey, if you don't like my idea, come up with something better; and if you don't then leave me alone," is twaddle.
Not having something better doesn't mean your idea isn't shite.
TK
Re: The Team
Date: 2007-07-06 04:56 pm (UTC)2. "Because they don't speak to those people's suitability to the "plan" you've put together."
As your the Authority here, and those involved are specific for some tasks, seriously what is your point. You are nothing but aggressive, not surprising considering your profession. Oh, is that a stereo type. Is it also a stereo type to say those in armed forces are more likely to be those with these girls...; I wonder what your motivations relay are here. Simple question. I'm not suggesting anything, just wondering.
3. Snatch and Grab - As your in the services, and I state no one in blood rose will ever be mentioned. First, you know I could never say who is in this team, secondly it makes me question what you actually do, as you really should know I could not answer this question being in the forces yourself.
4. Translator are available at my disposal. Also, they will not be necessary after a period of time and the teachers are starting to learn different Asiatic languages.
5. Supplying the Island, Food I have already answered this question to you, as you know. Either on the Island, or renting near by farms and contracting local farmers. We will also assist them with food production and if floods, this is covered also, to outsource supplies and keep months worth of emergency rations available, just in case.
6. Supplying the Island with labour for the school and these things, not actually being handled by myself but someone in the team. But all is being or has been sourced.
7. Curriculum being designed by a few of he teachers but using a well known boarding school with great grades as a Frame work, and also someone who Advises the French and Spanish Educational System on this.
8. Paying people. Teachers and the team etc. Please look at the site, I will answer new questions, not old. Everyone gets paid from CT.
9. Water, different methods, but there are 3 main sources for this and the Island has it's own fresh water supply, natural spring.
Part 2
Date: 2007-07-06 04:59 pm (UTC)11. How do you do something like I am in the first place, if it was in it's infancy, which it is not, you would rather just say.. ah it's one man, on a crusade, ten people aboard it a few deluded people. 50, a cult is being formed... 100, this guy is just crazy and someone should stop him, 1000 people and then you will still be hell bent on telling people you exist.
Both Caroline and Cindy will live on the Island, not just for one year, but many. Cindy will leave more frequently to return to the US, Caroline will be there for long long periods like other teachers, our nurse wants to stay for at least 3 years, then to think about what she wants. But I'm sure you will find a problem with this?
Breeding, i forgot you know so much about this..... if you have 2 animals, one is male, one female... on a protected part of the Island.. of course this will cost astronomical fee's.... why????????????
Yes it is big. Costs are not as high as you think.
Sorry Terry, your just wrong here. You know so little about me. You want people to hear your choice, you ask questions, I answer, your like a child who wants to keep his toy.
Your right you don't think. You have no idea what my financial backing is on this, none, yet you still want to be heard.
That's 2 times in the last sentence I have acted like you.
Can you see how pointless it is to say.
Your language, and use of insults is very limited.
Why do it. I don't I'm making a point.
People like you are why the world is as it is.
It's so easy to sit back, feel worth in your life when you do????? I'm asking.
I answer things in a good way, in the spirit of making things better and all you do is revert to the gutter on many of your posts.
It's easy to discuss things with me, it's easy to ask me questions, but as soon as the person you say bad things about says something, you just act like a child. I remember when I was 12, in school, and some kids were arguing... they could not think of the words to use, so they insulted using gutter language.
All I have tried to do here, is what is best for those kids, yet all you do is keep this world the same. You are a wonderful human being Terry.
I'm sure you will take all this personally, I'm glad, as I have only been civil, all you do is continue to be a child.
Ryan
I have tried in the best spirit here.
no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 09:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-05 10:48 pm (UTC)anyway, he's nuts.
Founder
Date: 2007-07-05 11:10 pm (UTC)Ryan
Re: Founder
Date: 2007-07-06 06:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-06 03:39 am (UTC)Thnik of a pimp
Date: 2007-07-06 08:00 am (UTC)Thats what actually happens to some of these girls. Some are raped byt thier boyfriends, then feel so isolated agree to be sold. They can not return to thier parents, as they are now nothing.
They say in Asia, boys are gold, women are white cloth... you put them both in muddy water and take them out. The mud runs off the gold.....
I actually prefer Jack in 'One flew over the Cookcoos Nest' Plus a few of the patients have BPD and other things, great movie.
Ryan
no subject
Date: 2007-07-06 01:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-06 01:19 am (UTC)How that will work in practice, I don't know. I can see lots of ways to manage such a thing, but none of them address the main point, this is "forcible rescue" culminating in a gilded cage, wherein they will be taught things his panels of experts think are fitting and proper.
At it's most favorable interpretation, I find it warped beyond redemption.
TK
Prospectus
Date: 2007-07-06 08:09 am (UTC)At least 1 year, not 2.
1. How would you manage it?
2. I would like you to watch a video, if thats ok with you. I will post it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyIpOCeYSIw
This will answer a few questions I think.
As the teachers are Teachers, who else would decide the prospectus. Terry, I'm very unclear on this one, I belive by contacting those who decide the french prospectuses, and looking at Private Schools, this is correct.
Ryan
I understand your concerns
Date: 2007-07-06 08:05 am (UTC)Of all REPORTED cases, 1-5 % conviction dependning on the country. So statistics you find are based on convictions.
Imagine how many do not get reported.
Would you prefer I do nothing? If not, suggest something else, please.
I am not even on the Island for 1 year and I very much doubt I'll spend any real time there, as I have many other things to do.
The teachers run the island, not me.
Ryan
no subject
Date: 2007-07-06 02:25 am (UTC)I have to wonder if anyone has done a thorough "Who Is...", and checked out his track record, background, references, and connections.
Talk
Date: 2007-07-06 08:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-07-06 03:37 am (UTC)He's offended that I said this was a scam, and asks what my problem is with his enterprise.
He needs to get over himself. If he's running a serious business, he can't flinch at what random people on the internet say, to he's wasting time. If it's a real venture, and he gets into slap-fights in random livejournals, he looses. Always.
Every well run company I know of has this policy. DO NOT ENGAGE DETRACTORS IN PUBLIC FORUMS.
Period. Only idiots do that. It fails to look professional. Email them privately. Do not go into a public forum and debate them.
disapointed
Date: 2007-07-06 08:15 am (UTC)Loose, loose with you.
You compare me to other companies, I'm personal in things I do, so I try to explain to people.
Yet you complain about this.
Do you know any company/org that is doing what I do.
I'm not offended.
I'm sorry with you, no one can do anything without you complaining about the reponse or lack of.
Ryan
The best advoctes of any cause, are those who were the biggest skeptics
no subject
Date: 2007-07-06 11:33 am (UTC)I also particularly noted this: Political change will support those Ladies it feels are “Ladies” and do not turn into men, within the political system, however they desire.
So I can run the world provided I remain a lady, according to someone else's definition? That may be a lot of things, but power it's not.
I'm inclined to agree with Terry
Date: 2007-07-06 09:53 pm (UTC)One possible problem I see is, what effect will the removal of some number of girls from the sex trade actually have? I can imagine it increasing the number of girls who are kidnapped into the sex trade as "replacements". The numbers of girls in the sex trade would stay the same, and a few rescued girls would (if all goes well) receive a splendid education. But the net effect might be better if you simply went to the parents and recruited girls before they were kidnapped.
If, on the other hand, enough girls were "rescued" to seriously deplete the availble population (very low probability, but let's go with it), you drive up the cost of acquiring new sex workers. It would be nice to think the "owners" would take better care of their girls, but I suspect they'd simply equip them with tighter chains, both real and metaphorical. Tighten security enough, and you increase the chances both would-be rescuer and rescued wind up being killed.
Also, if you drive up the cost of sex workers, it might become cheaper to simply offer the parents enough money to induce them to sell off any "excess" daughters. (In cultures which prize male children, and hold female children in rather less regard.) At this point, you can't return a girl to her family, because they'll simply forward her on to her "rightful owner".
In sum, unless this project is capable of affecting the underlying value systems of the girls' home cultures, it's not going to change anything.
My opinion, void where prohibited, not valid with any other offer.
Re: I'm inclined to agree with Terry
Date: 2007-07-07 07:54 am (UTC)Also, the Way WO operates is by being funded by my own company pointing out the flaws with charity, this will also be seen as a way to change charity policy which can then also get to the route cause.
For all of this to change, certain things globaly need to change.
I do appologise I can not discuss GEB very much, but this is what GEB is about.
Political Change, if we help return the LEGAL government back to Burma/Myamar, then this will stop more of the sex trade thna anything else.
To curtail the flow of children or to do what is best for those girls, you need to do things that I have not.
1. The debate over legalisation of prostitution, operating a 5 star system, where as it comes down to regulations - Australia, Amsterdam. But this is not possible, it is children and not women.
2. Change the underlying essence of the culture, good luck.
3. Change Global Economy to an egalitarian Society. But how? Unless we have cold fusion, which would then give free energy if controled by state, and free water.
You can not create this sort of society, with capitalism being included, so you are then reverted to a communist state. Which then creates poverty, but you have less famine, less wars etc. As most of these are caused by energy.
So unless someone can give me an alternative to combating the sex trade, I will continue with this.
Although WO does not go to the route cause, which is not economy, which is not politics, which is not education, which is not any of these things.
You can help me, you can work with me, you can help those girls.
If I think you can help on GEB, then I would then ask you to sign an NDA, then you would simply be able to see how all of these things can be achived and go straight to the route cause.
This is not information for public forums, but as I state, if you wuish to sign an NDA, you can know more about GEB.
So not one can accuse me now of with holding information, only that they are paranoid about an NDA.
Ryan
Re: I'm inclined to agree with Terry
Date: 2007-07-07 04:41 pm (UTC)Because you are. If you want people to think you are aboveboard, you have to be transparent.
The Gov't of the USA is telling me that the secret spying they are doing is only being used against, "terrorists". They assure me that trustworthy people have reviewed it.
You are doing much the same. People whom you have legally constrained from speaking about it have been told the details.
If we are 1: People you think will be of service to your cause and 2: willing to promise to not share the details, we can be let in on the secret.
That's witholding information. Why? Because what you tell your critics is what matters. What the true believers see isn't public.
If it isn't public, it's witheld.
TK
Re: I'm inclined to agree with Terry
Date: 2007-07-08 11:47 am (UTC)2. If you are there and you are of such high moral standing, why? As you are there for the wrong reasons.
3. I do not think YOU could aid anything, you could hinder as you are this sort of person.
Have you ever run a business? A NGO or anything else?
You say you are in the military and then ask for details on those who would rescue the girls.
You want information when I have offered to give it with an NDA. Although you wouldnot be able to talk about it, you could then either revert your abuse or be silent, either way I hav egiven you the choice.
Why would you not take this, unless you are worried about going back on yourself.
Those who work with me I discuss things with, as it is SPERATE divisions so some just want to work on that project. They sign NDA's and are told about CT and GEB and then either stay with me or not. Yet every single person I have spoken to, then wants to stay... maybe there is more to me than you think Terry.
Just maybe.
People say, give someone enough rope and the will hang themselves.. I have given you avenues to find out more and yet you do not take them.... strange.
I think you simply like to have people agree with you, to give your life meaning 'if it does not already'
So have you shot at any Iraq's?
If you are there for illegal reasons, and you remain, is that not a war crime.
I am very open on the blog, yet you do things you maybe ot maynot agree with, very strange.
You are doing what Blood Rose does, by your own estimations of what they do.
Ryan
no subject
Date: 2008-04-03 07:48 am (UTC)