The rot, it runs deep
Jun. 2nd, 2009 12:37 pmA piece by Jack Goldsmith (assistant attorney general under Bush, fellow at the Hoover Institution, and professor of law at Harvard) says closing Bagram and Guantanamo, is a wasted effort because the administration will just lead to sending suspected terrorists to worse places
This wouldn’t bother me so much (because, much as I would like to think otherwise, I don’t think this administration has the courage to be pure in this regard), save for the way he stacks the deck.
The government was under pressure to take terrorists off the streets and learn what they knew. But it could not bring them to the United States because U.S. law made it too hard to effectively interrogate and incapacitate them here.
Not at all. Interrogation can be done here. Goldsmith is arguing that we can’t do what needs to be done and you can’t get information from die-hard terrorist by offering them tea and cookies. This is, of course, nonsense).
But there it was, he slipped in the idea that one can’t get the job done without torture.
He does it again later.
It is tempting to say that we should end this pattern and raise standards everywhere. Perhaps we should extend habeas corpus globally, eliminate targeted killing and cease cooperating with intelligence services from countries that have poor human rights records. This sentiment, however, is unrealistic. The imperative to stop the terrorists is not going away. The government will find and exploit legal loopholes to ensure it can keep up our defenses.
First, it wasn’t, “legal loopholes,” they were exploiting to justify torture. There are no loopholes. The arguments applied by Yoo, Bybee, and Bradbury, weren’t finding loopholes, they were knocking holes in the walls and calling them doorways.
Second, none of that will, “stop the terrorists.” Once we have them in custody, they are stopped.
He closes:
The government, however, sees the terrorist threat every day and is under enormous pressure to keep the country safe. When one of its approaches to terrorist incapacitation becomes too costly legally or politically, it shifts to others that raise fewer legal and political problems. This doesn't increase our safety or help the terrorists. But it does make us feel better about ourselves.
Again, the one doesn’t follow from the other. The threat of terrorism won’t end. It can’t, because it’s cheap. A modern, “Phoenix Program” doesn’t incapacitate terrorists (how many times have we killed the number 3 member of al Qaeda?). It’s also not clear that moving to things like rendition/assassination, etc. equals “fewer political problems.
The real answer to terrorism probably hidden in higher up, This approach to detention policy reflects a sharp disjunction between the public's view of the terrorist threat and the government's. After nearly eight years without a follow-up attack, the public (or at least an influential sliver) is growing doubtful about the threat of terrorism and skeptical about using the lower-than-normal standards of wartime justice.
Dean Ing wrote a book, back in the early ‘80s, about stopping terrorism. He had a newscaster start mocking them. He made them objects of derision, and scorn. Turned them into laughingstocks. If they don’t get the reactions they want, and they end up in jail, the odds are the risks go down.
They won’t go away, but this stuff isn’t making them go away either.
(comments at Better than Salt Money
This wouldn’t bother me so much (because, much as I would like to think otherwise, I don’t think this administration has the courage to be pure in this regard), save for the way he stacks the deck.
The government was under pressure to take terrorists off the streets and learn what they knew. But it could not bring them to the United States because U.S. law made it too hard to effectively interrogate and incapacitate them here.
Not at all. Interrogation can be done here. Goldsmith is arguing that we can’t do what needs to be done and you can’t get information from die-hard terrorist by offering them tea and cookies. This is, of course, nonsense).
But there it was, he slipped in the idea that one can’t get the job done without torture.
He does it again later.
It is tempting to say that we should end this pattern and raise standards everywhere. Perhaps we should extend habeas corpus globally, eliminate targeted killing and cease cooperating with intelligence services from countries that have poor human rights records. This sentiment, however, is unrealistic. The imperative to stop the terrorists is not going away. The government will find and exploit legal loopholes to ensure it can keep up our defenses.
First, it wasn’t, “legal loopholes,” they were exploiting to justify torture. There are no loopholes. The arguments applied by Yoo, Bybee, and Bradbury, weren’t finding loopholes, they were knocking holes in the walls and calling them doorways.
Second, none of that will, “stop the terrorists.” Once we have them in custody, they are stopped.
He closes:
The government, however, sees the terrorist threat every day and is under enormous pressure to keep the country safe. When one of its approaches to terrorist incapacitation becomes too costly legally or politically, it shifts to others that raise fewer legal and political problems. This doesn't increase our safety or help the terrorists. But it does make us feel better about ourselves.
Again, the one doesn’t follow from the other. The threat of terrorism won’t end. It can’t, because it’s cheap. A modern, “Phoenix Program” doesn’t incapacitate terrorists (how many times have we killed the number 3 member of al Qaeda?). It’s also not clear that moving to things like rendition/assassination, etc. equals “fewer political problems.
The real answer to terrorism probably hidden in higher up, This approach to detention policy reflects a sharp disjunction between the public's view of the terrorist threat and the government's. After nearly eight years without a follow-up attack, the public (or at least an influential sliver) is growing doubtful about the threat of terrorism and skeptical about using the lower-than-normal standards of wartime justice.
Dean Ing wrote a book, back in the early ‘80s, about stopping terrorism. He had a newscaster start mocking them. He made them objects of derision, and scorn. Turned them into laughingstocks. If they don’t get the reactions they want, and they end up in jail, the odds are the risks go down.
They won’t go away, but this stuff isn’t making them go away either.
(comments at Better than Salt Money