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Stopped Clocks
Lindsey Graham gets it right for once:
Now. I don't know what Nancy Pelosi knew and when she knew it. And I really don't think she's a criminal if she was told about waterboarding and did nothing. But I think it is important to understand that members of Congress, allegedly, were briefed by ... about these interrogation techniques. And again, it goes back to the idea of what was the Administration trying to do. If you're trying to commit a crime, it seems to me that would be the last thing you'd want to do. If you had in your mind and your heart that you're going to disregard the law, and you're going to come up with interrogation techniques that you know to be illegal, you would not go around telling people on the other side of the aisle about it.
He knocked that one out of the park.
Because the record shows that's exactly what they did. They didn't tell the other side of the aisle what was going on. After the fact they told them they had these spiffy new tricks (only they were old tricks, tricks we already knew don't work)which they had approved; but weren't using yet. When it looked as if they were going to be called on the carpet they had a bunch of meetings with Republicans, but not with Democrats.
Why not? If it was all on the up-and-up what was the reason to not tell the other party.
Could be it wasn't on the up-and-up.
To add to that we have Newt trying to double down, with his comment: "I think she has lied to the House, and I think that the House has an absolute obligation to open an inquiry, and I hope there will be a resolution to investigate her. And I think this is a big deal. I don’t think the Speaker of the House can lie to the country on national security matters.
I think he's right... lying to the nation on matters of national security does deserve investigations. We can start right at the top, with Bush, Cheney, Powell (and his present pleasant posture, as regards the president doesn't wash the stain of his briefing to the UN, nor his staying in office until after Bush was re-elected), Rice, Addison, and Bybee (who is, IMO, impeachable right now; for contempt of the Senate. He wants to sit on the bench, he sure as hell has to be obedient to the rule of law. He subpoenas someone, I figure that person has the right to say no. Bybee has shown he thinks such things are refusable requests).
If those investigations lead to Democrats. If Pelosi, or Reid, or Harman, or Fienstein, were complicit, prosecute them too.
The Right will say (is saying) this is partisan. Nonsense. Investigating alleged crimes isn't partisan. That's what investigations are for, finding out what went on, to see if crimes were committed; if charges need to be pressed. Some of the crimes aren't just alleged, they are admitted.
Cheney says he had people waterboarded. He used the memos Bybee helped write (and signed off on) to set up tortures. He admits it. Says he's do it again, and that it's a terrible thing we've stopped doing it.
Well those tortures led to people dying. There are, "a few bad apples," in prison right now because they did the things those memos authorised.
Graham, and Newt, spake wiser than they knew.
We ought listen to them.
Now. I don't know what Nancy Pelosi knew and when she knew it. And I really don't think she's a criminal if she was told about waterboarding and did nothing. But I think it is important to understand that members of Congress, allegedly, were briefed by ... about these interrogation techniques. And again, it goes back to the idea of what was the Administration trying to do. If you're trying to commit a crime, it seems to me that would be the last thing you'd want to do. If you had in your mind and your heart that you're going to disregard the law, and you're going to come up with interrogation techniques that you know to be illegal, you would not go around telling people on the other side of the aisle about it.
He knocked that one out of the park.
Because the record shows that's exactly what they did. They didn't tell the other side of the aisle what was going on. After the fact they told them they had these spiffy new tricks (only they were old tricks, tricks we already knew don't work)which they had approved; but weren't using yet. When it looked as if they were going to be called on the carpet they had a bunch of meetings with Republicans, but not with Democrats.
Why not? If it was all on the up-and-up what was the reason to not tell the other party.
Could be it wasn't on the up-and-up.
To add to that we have Newt trying to double down, with his comment: "I think she has lied to the House, and I think that the House has an absolute obligation to open an inquiry, and I hope there will be a resolution to investigate her. And I think this is a big deal. I don’t think the Speaker of the House can lie to the country on national security matters.
I think he's right... lying to the nation on matters of national security does deserve investigations. We can start right at the top, with Bush, Cheney, Powell (and his present pleasant posture, as regards the president doesn't wash the stain of his briefing to the UN, nor his staying in office until after Bush was re-elected), Rice, Addison, and Bybee (who is, IMO, impeachable right now; for contempt of the Senate. He wants to sit on the bench, he sure as hell has to be obedient to the rule of law. He subpoenas someone, I figure that person has the right to say no. Bybee has shown he thinks such things are refusable requests).
If those investigations lead to Democrats. If Pelosi, or Reid, or Harman, or Fienstein, were complicit, prosecute them too.
The Right will say (is saying) this is partisan. Nonsense. Investigating alleged crimes isn't partisan. That's what investigations are for, finding out what went on, to see if crimes were committed; if charges need to be pressed. Some of the crimes aren't just alleged, they are admitted.
Cheney says he had people waterboarded. He used the memos Bybee helped write (and signed off on) to set up tortures. He admits it. Says he's do it again, and that it's a terrible thing we've stopped doing it.
Well those tortures led to people dying. There are, "a few bad apples," in prison right now because they did the things those memos authorised.
Graham, and Newt, spake wiser than they knew.
We ought listen to them.
no subject
no subject
It's easier to believe that the briefings failed to clarify what was being done, or to what extent, or both.
It's marvelous that Gingrich et al are suddenly acknowledging that something bad was done. I'm with you in thinking that the investigation needs to start both earlier and at higher levels that the question of what did Nancy know and when did she know it.
no subject
The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence) is charged with oversight of our intelligence services. At the time Ms.Pelosi was briefed, she was a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Whilst discussion of such matters heard in camera with colleagues other than those on the Committee is forbidden, the Committee(s) themselves have the power to tell the C.I.A. that X is not going to be allowed.
Had such happened, were it subject to a vote in Committee, her vote would be recorded.
As the mad dogs of our free press have not made comment yea or nay regarding such, we don't know if that occurred.
no subject
If she calls their bluff... they are toast.
One of the quirks of being a representative is immunity when on the floor of the house. As Speaker she sets the agenda. I am pretty sure she has the right to take the floor, and hold it.
Which means she can step into the well of the house, and tell the entire world; on C-Span, every thing she was told; and the threats, and all they can do is revoke her clearance. If they arrest her, and send to to Gitmo, etc. the mask of these things being only applicable to "terrorists" is stripped away.
And Pelosi may not be all I want in a Speaker, but she doesn't take well to be being personally pushed, no matter what she may be willing to put up with when they shove her party around.