pecunium: (Pixel Stained)
pecunium ([personal profile] pecunium) wrote2010-03-21 11:59 am

WTF?

Recently, at work, something odd happened.

Guy came in, and started to ask me questions about knives. So far all is normal. Selling knives is a lot of what I do. We talk about this and that, and he starts being discoursive. He then asks me one of those questions I've had, now and again, though not here; at SLT.

"What do you think of women using knives?"


"I don't have any problem with it."

He went on, saying from things he'd seen them doing in the kitchen it gave him the willies. I said he ought to see the things I see men doing with knives. Then I tried to point out that it was more a matter of preconceptions than anything else. I told him I'd been in the army for 167 years, and I taught firearms handling, as well as knife skills. This was to lead into telling him that I far prefer to have female students (in firearms) than I do male ones (in knives it doesn't have the same gender skew, though there are traits I think I see more in women than in men. There are other traits I think I see in men more. some good, some bad, in both sexes).

That did, so I thoght, derail the conversation, but it was being a bit strange, and I wanted to done with it. He started asking me questions about guns, and I started actually moving him out of the store. On the way he started asking me about my thoughts on "open carry". My thoughts on the carryng of firearms are pretty simple. Most people shouldn't do it because they don't think it through carefully enough (for more detailed ideas of my thinking you can read the post/comments in places like Making Light (where the subject has come up, more than once).

I tried to say this, gently, but I was starting to get an odd vibe. I actually started pushing him out of the store (my boss actually noticed this). At the door he kept going, and then it happened, he explained why he was looking into things like "open carry" (which right he didn't know we had in Calif. never mind that as configured it's a mess... asking for trouble and conferring no real benefit to anyone who isn't willing to spend lots of time getting a number of drills down to pure muscle memory. Even if that's done the requirements still make you much more target than anything else... all of which I mentioned to him).

It's because of the political situation now, and the "trouble we have coming with the blacks and the browns".

I was croggled. He'd just given me what can only be described as the tea-bagger's secret handshake. I wasn't certain until he added, "You know I used to be a liberal."

The next say, he was back. Asked if I had a card, and then (when I said I didn't really. Which was true, in context. I don't have a card for my work, and I had no intent of sharing my personal one with him). That, it seemed was ok. He had one to give me, with a slightly conspiratorial leaning in as he said, "I might have some work for you."

[identity profile] don-fitch.livejournal.com 2010-03-21 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)
If I knew more about it, I might offer "Well... MS Bobbit seems to have been reasonably skillful, and I've found that women are about as good as men when it comes to using knives -- and better about not leaving them out where children can get at them".

[identity profile] pdlloyd.livejournal.com 2010-03-21 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree; except I'd drop the word "little."

[identity profile] zingerella.livejournal.com 2010-03-21 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Women using knives? Like, say, that customer's mother making her kid's dinner? That customer's grandmother feeding her family? WTF? Even if one believes women should be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, how the hell will they get anything done in said kitchen without wielding a knife?</i? This was pretty much my exact question. Partially because I had just finished eating dinner, which I prepared using my nice knives, and I'm really not sure how I'd have managed without them—biting the veggies into the correct shapes just would not serve.

[identity profile] fledgist.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 12:37 am (UTC)(link)
I've known people who carried guns on their hips (other than soldiers and police officers). The first guy I knew who did was bludgeoned to death because he mistook a revolver for a magical death-dealing device, instead of a machine for making holes in things at a distance.

[identity profile] chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
This opens you up to two problems: 1) The "Boy who cried wolf" effect, where the cops might be slower to respond to a genuine emergency if you have a history of what they believe to be frivolous calls, and 2) charges of Filing a False Police Report, or whatever your local jurisdiction calls it. The moral of this story is, if you live in a state with open carry, don't call the cops unless you have a valid reason to be suspicious besides "OMG I'm so scared of teh mean guns!!1!"

[identity profile] fledgist.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
What was Zachary Taylor like?

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
I'll let the cops explain that to me. I have no way to know a gun is licensed or legal, but it's utterly clear to me that it's a danger to myself and everyone else.

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 12:42 am (UTC)(link)
FWIW, not that I should need to explain this, but I'm an excellent shot, well-trained in firearms safety and lettered in both riflery and archery back in the day. My intense distrust of guns is not founded on ignorance. Quite the opposite.

[identity profile] coffeeem.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
BWAH-hah-hah-hah-hah! It's a whole new culinary art!

[identity profile] warclaw.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:00 am (UTC)(link)
One possibility...though I don't think it likely, is that the nutter is neither nuts nor a Tea-Bagger type. It wouldn't be the first time the government sent out "Agents provocateur" out into the populace, either to smoke out the real whack-jobs, or to solicit illegalities in order to have an excuse to crack down on a group or individual.

A really paranoid type might even say that Pecunium was being targeted because of his rather vocal stance on government sponsored torture and his complaints re: the VA education funding.

Like I said, I don't consider this possibility likely, but it is remotely there.

[identity profile] calimac.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
What mystifies me is this: Since everyone in California knows that a civilian's legally open carried firearm must be unloaded, why would anyone want to carry one?

The usual cant about carrying firearms is that you never know when you're going to need to shoot a predator or something, but if your weapon is empty, you can't shoot it. So what's the point of displaying it? Or is it pure macho, nothing else?

[identity profile] marydell.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:36 am (UTC)(link)
I took that for an un-Terry-like moment of hyperbole brought on by crogglement.

[identity profile] chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:42 am (UTC)(link)
Well, if you want to operate in bad faith in order to harass your fellow citizens for exercising rights that you don't agree with, I can't stop you. Any more than I could stop someone determined to call the cops every time they see someone in Middle Eastern garb, under the assumption the _must_ be terrorists.

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
Lot more deaths by gun violence in this country every year than by terrorism. Many thousands more. Just sayin'. Guess which worries me more? :)

[identity profile] chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:54 am (UTC)(link)
I really don't think harassing law-abiding citizens will lower gun violence rates. Criminals tend not to brandish unless they're actively perpetrating at that moment. Meanwhile, you plan to waste police resources with frivolous calls, which increases the chance they won't be able to respond to genuine crimes. How is this supposed to help, again?

Minor edit: Replace "Law abiding citizens" with "Citizens you have no valid reason to believe _aren't_ law abiding". Just for precision's sake.
Edited 2010-03-22 01:56 (UTC)

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Again, how do I know it's a legal firearm? That's a police matter, I'm certainly not going to ask anyone who feels a need to display a firearm if they have a carry permit. Any gun off the street is a safer street. Period.

(Then again, I'm one of those weirdos who thinks the Second Amendment applies to the National Guard, so I'm pretty sure we have an irreconcilable difference of viewpoint here.)

[identity profile] chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Minor edit: Replace "Law abiding citizens" with "Citizens you have no valid reason to believe _aren't_ law abiding". Just for precision's sake.

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 01:59 am (UTC)(link)
WRT to your edit, I generally don't see any valid reason for carrying a firearm in public in our contemporary society outside of law enforcement or specific security needs, so the presence of a visible firearm does not tend to reinforce my assumption of law-abiding citizenly behavior.

[identity profile] chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:01 am (UTC)(link)
The standards of basic civic responsibility are that you don't call the cops unless you have reason to believe a crime is being committed, NOT that you call them whenever you don't know for positively, absolutely certain that one hasn't.

But yeah, we probably won't resolve this, so let's not continue the argument in an innocent third party's blog.

[identity profile] jaylake.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:03 am (UTC)(link)
You have a good evening, then. And thank you for a civil discourse on a difficult topic.

[identity profile] dichroic.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:11 am (UTC)(link)
I lived in AZ ten years; I know people who carry. I also know (and have worked at) places with strict no-gun rules, not just in the building but anywhere on the property (e.g. Honeywell). I worked with one guy (in a different place, but he was a former employee at Honeywell) who said that he would never again work anywhere where he wasn't allowed to at least have his gun in his car. He was uncomfortable being without it.

Later on, I went on to work at Honeywell myself, at a couple of different sites over a period of four years. As a small unarmed female who grew up in a city, I never felt particularly unsafe there. What really scares me is the idea of someone so fearful carrying a gun. If you carry a gun, you need to be able to make conscious decisions about when to use it, not just start shooting out of fear.

[identity profile] dichroic.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
Do you have any anti-torture speeches coming up? Handing him a flyer for one of those might make him go away very quickly.

[identity profile] kd5mdk.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
He's your Nelson.

[identity profile] chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
That _is_ a drawback, yes. The I guess thinking is "Better a gun that takes a few seconds more to load, than no gun at all".

[identity profile] commodorified.livejournal.com 2010-03-22 02:37 am (UTC)(link)
Canadian Girls are notoriously Hardy, it's true. :-)

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