How to out oneself

[pecunium]

Over in matociquala's journal she made a post about rock-climbing, which had a passing comment on how Criminal Minds had managed to deconstruct a bit of the male gaze in its most recent episode.

It was the passing comment which led to the amusements. Setsuled asked a reasonable question. Bear responded, and as is her wont (and right, and privilege) she teased setsuled about how easy it might have been to look it up.

In the course of the subsequent responses (to which I added a few words) it became plain the user was unclear on a few basic concepts (not all of which are things one would be expected to know; though some are ones which the engaged participant would be expected to delve into).

It also became plain the user has a very subtle form of male-privilege, one which might work fairly well in the general run of the world, but was doomed to end up in disaster in a place like Bear's journal.

The things about which he was unaware were all asked with a reasonableness that hid the nature of his exploitation of privilege. If the conversation hadn't kept going, his misogyny might have remained hidden.

It was an interesting unfolding (and you are abjured from wading in to make comments. The subject, insofar as he is concerned is closed. Make your own call on substantive addressing of the issue, but he, and his comments, are a done deal there. I don't want to re-open it. Not only am I not trying to make a dogpile, but the poor thing isn't able to respond. That would make it rude to Bear, and unfair to him; so do me the favor, ok? Thanks).

The initial comments weren't too bad. There was something bothersome about them, but they weren't offensive. Just a trifle privileged, and even that was subtle. One got the feelng he was well meaning, but not well-informed.

As time went on, he got more defensive, and more dismissive, and (qu'elle surprise) evinced more use of privilege. Then he tied the rope around his neck, with an inappropriate comment.

He could have pulled back from the edge. In fact he seemed to, but not quite. And then he jumped. He got pissy about people pointing out he was being, not just rough and tumble in debate, but rude.

As I said, it's an interesting case study in someone outing themselves; from nice guy, to "Nice Guy" to jerk, to asshole, to banned, all in one day.

Comments

[lalouve.livejournal.com]

That was a spectacular crash and burn. I particularly like the way he resorts to stupid jokes and comments on being king of the world - that tells me a lot of things about his world view, and probably not the things he thinks it conveys. What a spoilt little boy.

[cucumberseed.livejournal.com]

Wow. Textbook.

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

I read the post and the first set of comments when the post first went up. I didn't go back, so the last comment I read from him was saying he thought he'd finally found a way to talk to Bear. I left feeling kind of sorry for him. There are a lot of people I don't know how to talk to.

Now? Wow, what a jerk. He went downhill quickly and seemed to relish digging the hole deeper. Any sympathy I had is gone.

[ckd]

Well, I'm sure glad I missed watching that one go down in realtime.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

I read that when it was happening, and my reaction mirrors was pretty much exactly yours. With a side order of "dude, can you possibly be this rude and clueless?"

[ruthless1.livejournal.com]

That was. Well - like a bad accident. A train wreck. I couldn't stop reading it, but it kind of made me sick. Just wow. Truly clueless.

[saoba.livejournal.com]

I saw about the first three comments from him before I made a side bet with myself about whether or not he'd manage to get himself banned before I came back to look at the thread this afternoon.

I now owe me twenty Internet Dollarz.

But I never ever would have expected the degree to which he'd self-destruct. I mean, seriously, inappropriately sexualizing a woman on her own LJ to win points in an Internet Slap Fight? Dumb. Doing it to Ebear and trying to blow it off as her being too thin skinned? Felony Stupid.

[kouredios.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't been following that.

I've seen folks go through that same process on Pandagon a few times, but you're right; it was a nice, self-contained, crystalized example, and nested (unlike Pandagon).

I think I am in love with that thread

[beable]

solely for commodorofied's awesome snark in "How NOT to apologise, a short play in five acts".

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Whoa. I don't read that journal, so I just went and skimmed thru the entire thing. I think there must have been some timing issues that aren't obvious from the threading, because when you just follow down the sub-threads in order, it looks as though the inappropriately-sexual comment just came out of nowhere. But ye ghods. Downright canonical, he was.

[benet.livejournal.com]

I've noticed there's this particular flavour of trolling that sometimes comes from people who are not total doorknobs, but who seem to be overwhelmed, betimes, with the intense desire to throw rocks at hornet's nests. I don't know why. But I got a strong impression that this guy wanted people to be mad at him.

Ahh, but not mad at him for any reason. Coming in with a "your so gay" comment would have that effect, but not in a satisfying way. No, I think the enjoyment comes from playing intellectual martyr. "Their definitions were unsound," he thinks, "so I questioned them. All I cared about was the truth. Like Socrates, man. Like Galileo." The trouble is that what's really happening is not that he's applying cold, merciless logic to what people say to him: he's actually just responding with a dismissive smirk, and then brainstorming a follow-up question by picking semantic nits so that it sounds like he's being all Socratic.

I knew so damn many people in high school who loved playing that game. Most of them grew out of it.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

It really bothers me when people treat the theoretical constructs of feminist and so-called 'critical' theory as if they are objective facts about the world.

Bear in her first reply says:

...if you were female, you would absolutely have no doubts about how the media generally objectifies, sexualizes, and dehumanizes women.

Really? Er, dude? I am female. And yet, the doubts, I can haz them.

If I had watched in real time, I would undoubtedly have ruffled my share of feathers, and not out of any male privilege but out of deep fucking annoyance that (yet again) the followers of Post Modern theory act as if no one can can discuss anything unless they first become versed in, and believers of, same.

GAAAAAAAAH. As far as I can tell, Post Modernism has the singular capacity to turn anyone who buys into it into a self-righteous asshole.

[akirlu.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I just love it when one of the lit crit kiddies comes in and starts opining about what is, or isn't, a valid argument, as if the lit critters could recognize validity with both hands and a truth table. Feh.

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Oh no he di'int...

...

Wow, he did.

That's some impressive WTFery right there.